01 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Can you show me the scriptures that show that God only gives His Spirit to some of His
God gives the Holy Spirit to certain believers in the form of Holy Spirit gifts as far as I can tell. If not then let me have reference to check on it.
and not others.
With respect to the gifts of the Spirit, I'm not bringing that up in this only you, if you want
to discuss it start another thread I'll join you. Your opinion is one I value, I don't agree with
you, but I do believe you are someone who firmly believes what you believe and not just
someone who has an opinion without thinking about it.
01 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayLike I said, I do not know who God gives His Spirit to. I do not know that. What I do know for sure is that there are many that claim to have certain gifts and they have been proven to be liars.
Can you show me the scriptures that show that God only gives His Spirit to some of His
and not others.
With respect to the gifts of the Spirit, I'm not bringing that up in this only you, if you want
to discuss it start another thread I'll join you. Your opinion is one I value, I don't agree with
you, but I do believe you are someone who firmly believes what you believe and not just
someone who has an opinion without thinking about it.
You are the one that claims to know these things so maybe it is you that should produce the references about it.
Ok glad to hear that you value my opinion. I will start another thread about some of these HS issues.
01 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Romans 8:9
Like I said, I do not know who God gives His Spirit to. I do not know that. What I do know for sure is that there are many that claim to have certain gifts and they have been proven to be liars.
You are the one that claims to know these things so maybe it is you that should produce the references about it.
Ok glad to hear that you value my opinion. I will start another thread about some of these HS issues.
But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.
Galatians 4:6
And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
Here is a few verses about God's Spirit and His children and they are not hard to grasp
the meaning in them.
Specific gift of the Spirit are again not part of this discussion, but I will pick up the topic
if you start a discussion on that.
01 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat is the contention here ... that Christians are led by the Spirit of God and are children of God? If that is the case then requires them to live in Christ and follow Christ commandments. If they do not then there are serious consequences
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Romans 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.
Galatians 4:6
And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, ...[text shortened]... in not part of this discussion, but I will pick up the topic
if you start a discussion on that.
If it is you are trying to prove that Christians all have Gods Spirit and therefore always do good works then I will disagree.
Here is the whole story .. Go back a few chapters:
- Romans 5 contains the purpose of the death of Christ and how it saved mankind from he sin of Adam, the wages of which was certain death.
- Romans 6 & 7 is warning Christians that Christ death [which is given by the grace of God] is not a licence to continue to sin. Instead by being baptised into Christ Christians SHOULD walk with Christ and SHOULD NOT serve sin.
- Romans 8 spells out the two types of Christian : those who walk in the Spirit [with Christ] and those who walk after the flesh [carnal], and the resulting consequences for both types
Any interpretation which concludes that, Christians have Gods Spirit therefore they cannot sin, or do not sin or WILL DO good works is a false interpretation.
01 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999What is in contention here is if you have the Spirit of God in your life you are apart of
What is the contention here ... that Christians are led by the Spirit of God and are children of God? If that is the case then requires them to live in Christ and follow Christ commandments. If they do not then there are serious consequences
If it is you are trying to prove that Christians all have Gods Spirit and therefore always do good works then I wi ...[text shortened]... Spirit therefore they cannot sin, or do not sin or WILL DO good works is a false interpretation.
God's family, and if you don't have God's Spirit are you God's? Nothing more than that!
I'm trying to prove anything other than that
Please address that, and that alone, because I'm not trying to do anything other than
that. It is a simple point. I'm not talking about a license for sinning, so again stay on
topic if you will.
Romans 8 is talking about two types of people, NOT two types of Christians so your
injection of the Word Christian there is adding to the Word of God, that is not proper
and it changes the text into something that was not being said. What it does talk about
are those that have the Spirit of God following God and those that are not but instead
are without God walking in the flesh. They cannot please God because the flesh and
the Spirit are at odds with one another.
I've never said that Christians cannot sin, so to attempt to make that my point is false.
01 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayWell you are still not being clear.
What is in contention here is if you have the Spirit of God in your life you are apart of
God's family, and if you don't have God's Spirit are you God's? Nothing more than that!
I'm trying to prove anything other than that
Please address that, and that alone, because I'm not trying to do anything other than
that. It is a simple point. I'm not talki ...[text shortened]... er.
I've never said that Christians cannot sin, so to attempt to make that my point is false.
You are part of Gods family .. so what? Is there a point? That means nothing UNTIL your life pleases God.
Satan was part of Gods family. Satan and all his buddies were part of Gods family .. but what they did
SEPARATED THEM FROM GOD... THEY SINNED.
You acknowledge that Christians can sin but you are not admitting to the consequences of sin if God does not forgive they way Satan was not forgiven.
01 Oct 15
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999I have been repeating myself, I'm stressing one point!
Well you are still not being clear.
You are part of Gods family .. so what? Is there a point? That means nothing UNTIL your life pleases God.
Satan was part of Gods family. Satan and all his buddies were part of Gods family .. but what they did
SEPARATED THEM FROM GOD... THEY SINNED.
You acknowledge that Christians can sin but you are not admitting to the consequences of sin if God does not forgive they way Satan was not forgiven.
Those that belong to God have God's Spirit.
If you please God that I'm quite sure you'll have God's Spirit, and if you do not have
even faith which is a gift of God, it is impossible to please God.
Those that live for sin will die in their sin, following the Spirit of God is the only way you
are going to avoid sin, but if a believer sins, we can go to Jesus. This again is not a
loop hole to live for sin. If you are living for sin instead of the Lord, you have made
sin your master not God.
Why didn't you address each of those scriptures I gave to you, you asked for them?
01 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayI understand your point but like already said, Satan and his angels were all part of Gods family until they displeased God and were doomed. Same with anyone Christian or otherwise. You can go to Jesus but there is a limit to that.
I have been repeating myself, I'm stressing one point!
Those that belong to God have God's Spirit.
If you please God that I'm quite sure you'll have God's Spirit, and if you do not have
even faith which is a gift of God, it is impossible to please God.
Those that live for sin will die in their sin, following the Spirit of God is the only way you
are ...[text shortened]... r not God.
Why didn't you address each of those scriptures I gave to you, you asked for them?
I think I have said enough. If you dont understand me then I cannot rephrase it any other way.
02 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Romans 8:9
I understand your point but like already said, Satan and his angels were all part of Gods family until they displeased God and were doomed. Same with anyone Christian or otherwise. You can go to Jesus but there is a limit to that.
I think I have said enough. If you dont understand me then I cannot rephrase it any other way.
But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Who was apart isn't the issue, I believe that angels did indeed lose their place, I believe that
people can come to God touch and experience God's good grace,and also walk away
in favor of sin over God. You have preached that here since I've first seen your name,
yet you do not seem to want to deal with God's Spirit is only given to His own, and that
if you do not have God's Spirit you do not belong to God. There are to many warnings
about losing one's first love to not take that seriously.
02 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayI still do not understand why you keep repeating this when I have agreed with you :
Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Who was apart isn't the issue, I believe that angels did indeed lose their place, I believe that
people can come to God touch and experience God's good grace,and also walk away
i ...[text shortened]... ng to God. There are to many warnings
about losing one's first love to not take that seriously.
you do not seem to want to deal with God's Spirit is only given to His own, and that
if you do not have God's Spirit you do not belong to God
02 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999Some of the things you have said have given me pause. Do you believe when God gives us
I still do not understand why you keep repeating this when I have agreed with you :
you do not seem to want to deal with God's Spirit is only given to His own, and that
if you do not have God's Spirit you do not belong to God
His Spirit that is when we are born again?
03 Oct 15
Originally posted by KellyJayThere are two kinds of 'born again' of water and of the spirit. According to Christ both are requirements for entry into Gods Kingdom.
Some of the things you have said have given me pause. Do you believe when God gives us
His Spirit that is when we are born again?
Water born again is easy to indentify and needs no explanation.
Born of the spirit is far more complex becase that is one of the things in the Bible that is abused .. much like speaking in tongues. Every Tom Dick and Harry Christian claims to be able to speak in tongues.
Same with having Gods Spirt as far as I can see.
What do you think 'born of the spirit' means?
03 Oct 15
Originally posted by Rajk999John 3: 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
There are two kinds of 'born again' of water and of the spirit. According to Christ both are requirements for entry into Gods Kingdom.
Water born again is easy to indentify and needs no explanation.
Born of the spirit is far more complex becase that is one of the things in the Bible that is abused .. much like speaking in tongues. Every Tom Dick and Ha ...[text shortened]... ame with having Gods Spirt as far as I can see.
What do you think 'born of the spirit' means?
Being born of the Spirit is important, there is a difference between [S]pirit and [s]pirit as
we see in verses 5 and 6. A distinction is being made that we are born from above with
the Spirit of God. This is something that only God can do for us, we cannot force our own
birth into the Spirit of God any more than we can being born into this life.
I don't see it as complex at all it is only true with those that are born of God, if you are
not saved you will not have God's Spirit, but if you are faking being a Christian you will not
have God's Spirit.
Speaking with tongues is another topic.
Originally posted by KellyJayOk .. I gather that you are saying that you born of the Spirit or that Christians [genuine ones] are born of the Spirit? Remember that everything in the Bible has 'proof' that it is true and genuine.
John 3: 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you d ...[text shortened]... ng being a Christian you will not
have God's Spirit.
Speaking with tongues is another topic.
- Faith must be proven by good works otherwise it is fake.
- Speaking in tongues must be interpreted otherwise it is pointless
- Prophesying must be correct and come to pass otherwise it is not genuine.
Same with being born of the Spirit .. can you move like the wind?
Personally when I come across any Christian that claims any of the above and I ask about the'proof' accroding to the Bible ... they just laugh it off
04 Oct 15
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999“Remember that everything in the Bible has ‘proof’ that is true and genuine.”
Ok .. I gather that you are saying that you born of the Spirit or that Christians [genuine ones] are born of the Spirit? Remember that everything in the Bible has 'proof' that it is true and genuine.
- Faith must be proven by good works otherwise it is fake.
- Speaking in tongues must be interpreted otherwise it is pointless
- Prophesying must be c ...[text shortened]... s any of the above and I ask about the'proof' accroding to the Bible ... they just laugh it off
I’m not at all sure what you mean here! Are you saying that if it is in the Bible that it is true
and genuine, or in the life we live we will see genuine proof for what is in the Bible? We
are saved by grace through faith, it does not say we are saved by grace through genuine
proof. So faith is a something that will be accepted if you are suggesting that we will see
proof than what is the point of faith, if we have proof? There is no need to believe in
anything that we have proof for, because the proof is there.
"- Faith must be proven by good works otherwise it is fake."
No, not even close! Faith without works is dead not fake, we will react to what we believe,
because we believe it enough to respond to it. If we believe stealing is bad we will not steal,
if we believe lying is bad we will tell the truth, if we believe we should care for one another
there will acts of carrying for one another because that is what we believe we should do.
Fake is not apart of that, fake is pretending to be one thing and being another, believing
you should and not doing it is a dead faith. It is dead because you know better and yet you
still do wrong!
"- Speaking in tongues must be interpreted otherwise it is pointless"
I suggest you actually read about speaking in tongues, because it is obvious you don't
grasp there is more than one gift of tongues and none of them are pointless.
"- Prophesying must be correct and come to pass otherwise it is not genuine."
Agree
"Same with being born of the Spirit .. can you move like the wind?"
Do you just skim through scripture and not take time prayerfully reading it? Read John 3
for full context. This goes to the point you were making in error, the wind blows where it
chooses and you, I, nor anyone else knows where it comes from or where it goes. Which
does not agree with your first point on proof.
John 3:8
The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.’
Now I get you laugh off Christians when you ask for proof, when confronted with scripture
you do typically ignore much given to you. I don't laugh you off, but you do not take what
is shared with you. I don't know if you feel being wrong is something you want to avoid at
all costs, but it feels that way sometimes when I talk to you.