Originally posted by Rajk999Beware, Rajk999's deceptive way of avoiding the truth of the Bible is by complaining that there is too much to read.
So Jesus did not say those things. I thought so.
God is God. He is the father of Jesus.
Jesus is Jesus. He is the son of God.
They are 2 separate entities.
The Bible is clear on that.
Rajk999 says:
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God is God. He is the father of Jesus.
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Though he writes this, he probably doesn't believe it. I doubt his aim is the understand the Bible but to selectively choose what he thinks confirms his rejection of many other parts of it.
Of course John's Gospel states that the Word who was God became flesh (John 1:1,14). This heretic Rajk999's reaction will probably be that he knows more about it than the Apostle John did.
This is the new brand of heretic - "Oh, but Jesus didn't say that, John did. And you see I know more about it then John."
Well, we have Jesus saying that He is the "I AM" who existed before Abraham (John 8:58 compare Exodus 3:14). The Jews understood what He meant and sought to immediately stone Him to death for blasphamy.
Rajk999 may avoid these points by complaining that it is too much for him to read a long post.
The bottom line is that what the Apostle John wrote in his prologue -that the Word was with God, and WAS God and that the very God who became flesh (See John 1:1,14) John is simply reiterating what his Master taught from (John 8:58)
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Jesus is Jesus. He is the son of God.
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In reading the Bible you don't just learn what the Bible says. You have to learn what else the Bible says.
There is really no need to go to other verses though I could. In John 8:58 Jesus taught that He the Son of God was the pre-existing I AM of Exodus who talked with Moses. He is God then.
The Son of God is God the Son (See Hebrews 1:8). Rajk999, if he is not too lazy to read down this far, will probably protest that the book of Hebrews is not Jesus teaching. It is. And furthermore, for the writer of Hebrews to quote Psa. 45:6-7 to teach that Jesus the Son is God the Son, would also simply reiterate what Jesus taught in many places including John 8:58
Then Rajk999, a man of many errors and few words writes:
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They are 2 separate entities.
The Bible is clear on that.
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Let's see this so-called "separation" that Rajk999 says the Bible is so clear about. No need to bring in many other passages. Let's start right with John 8:58.
"The Jews then said to HIm, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I Am.
So they picked up stones to throw at Him ...." (John 8:57-58a)
If Jesus had drawn a clear "separation" between Him and the great I AM of the Old Testament, then the Jews never would have attempted to stone him to death for blasphemy. They understood that Jesus REMOVED all separation between Himself and the God Who spoke to Moses.
Jesus, a man not yet fifty years old, claims to pre-date Abraham who lived over a thousand years earlier. That not only implies that the man before them was the eternal God, just so they didn't misunderstand, He explicitly says that He is the I AM of the Exodus. He REMOVED all separation between Himself and Jehovah God of the Old Testament.
So we learn not only what the Bible says. We have to learn what ELSE the Bible says. We have to learn what the Bible ALSO says, to get at the truth.
And in this and many other passages which I will not site here, Jesus REMOVED any separation between He and God and He and the Father.
So some of us put it this way. The Father and the Son are DISTINCT but they are not SEPARATE. One lives in the Other. And the Other lives in the One.
Originally posted by pritybettaSo if I 'am saved', I am saved from the wrath of God.
Being sure of salvation is where you judge your own life and see if it is in line with the Word of God. You find out if you are saved by examining yourself and seeing if it is what the Lord wants. If your works are truly what you desire to do for the Lord then you can be sure you are saved, however, if you do the works to get salvation, they are in vain a ...[text shortened]... due to anything you do but rather what Christ has done. Your works are the result not the cause.
But to be 'sure of salvation', I have to judge my own life, if truely sincere, I can then be sure of salvation; which means I am saved from the wrath of God.? I am weak and fallable, because I still do not understand the difference.
Originally posted by snowinscotlandYou dont understand the difference because you have a normal logical mind and there is no difference to a mind like yours. You have to be a brainwashed semi-fanatical Christian to 'see' what PB sees.
So if I 'am saved', I am saved from the wrath of God.
But to be 'sure of salvation', I have to judge my own life, if truely sincere, I can then be sure of salvation; which means I am saved from the wrath of God.? I am weak and fallable, because I still do not understand the difference.
Almost always whenever people cannot explain simple concepts like what it takes to get salvation it means one of two things.... either they dont understand it themselves or their beliefs are wrong.
But for sure they will reply with either ... you are not 'called' or some nonsense about Christ not opening your mind and your heart. Christ explained in such simple language how to get salvation that even a 5 year old can understand it.
Originally posted by Rajk999
So in a nutshell, you dont have a clue whether or not someone is born again, do you? I mean Christians are baptised into Christ but its only Christ that have the all-knowing ability to look into someone's heart and mind and see if that baptism has made them into a new person spiritually .. according to Jaywill .. regenerated. You dont know that. I dont know that. Jaywill doesnt know that. Nobody knows until judgement day. Is that correct ?
We know them by their works. If you read someone (most people) close enough, you will know wether or not their works are in vain or not. It's not that hard. However, there are some who can be so deceiving that it is hard to figure out wether their works are in vain or not.
And 'baptized into Christ', what do you mean by that? Water baptism which is what someone does, or the baptism of the Holy Ghost witch can only be done by the Lord? I am thinking you are meaning of water. Baptism of water is not what changes the person, it is the baptism of the Holy Ghost that changes them and makes them born again.
Originally posted by Rajk999
I was just making fun on the fact that you have several classifications of "born again". You started it with Truly born again. The Bible speaks only of "born again". There is no such thing as truly born again. Its either you are born again or you are not.
" I was just making fun" Exactly, you were nit picking. Why do you do that? It profits nothing. And I explained why I was using the phrase. It is because so many say they are when in truth, they are not and I believe you knew that.
Originally posted by snowinscotland
So if I 'am saved', I am saved from the wrath of God.
But to be 'sure of salvation', I have to judge my own life, if truely sincere, I can then be sure of salvation; which means I am saved from the wrath of God.? I am weak and fallable, because I still do not understand the difference.
Ok, Lets try this. Have you ever had someone to tell you something that happened to you when you were too young to remember? And then you started asking everyone who you thought would know if it were true? And when they confirmed that it was true you were sure of what happened? Knowing didn't cause it to happen, it already did.
It is the same thing with being saved and knowing or being sure you are saved. Just because someone tells you that you are saved does not mean you are, you have to search it out for yourself to be sure. So you see being saved and being sure you are saved are not the same thing. Being sure doe not make you saved, it just means you know you are.
Originally posted by pritybettaYou cannot judge someones works to know if they are saved, can you? NO . So I repeat. You, me, nobody knows who is saved, who does good works ... nobody knows except Christ. How then can anyone claim to be saved when they are born again. Please answer that .
[b]Originally posted by Rajk999
So in a nutshell, you dont have a clue whether or not someone is born again, do you? I mean Christians are baptised into Christ but its only Christ that have the all-knowing ability to look into someone's heart and mind and see if that baptism has made them into a new person spiritually .. according to Jaywill .. re because so many say they are when in truth, they are not and I believe you knew that.[/b]
Originally posted by Rajk999Umm, being born again is being saved.😉
You cannot judge someones works to know if they are saved, can you? NO . So I repeat. You, me, nobody knows who is saved, who does good works ... nobody knows except Christ. How then can anyone claim to be saved when they are born again. Please answer that .
I am not saying you can know everyone who is saved, only the Lord knows that. But you can tell if someone who claims to be saved is truly saved.The Bible does tell us that we can tell.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Like I said, it is not hard, however, it may be hard to do over the internet. But with your case, I can tell that you are not as of yet. If you are to become saved, is another topic. It would be up to the Lord and we do not know what the future holds.
Originally posted by pritybettaLet me see if I read you right.
Umm, being born again is being saved.😉
I am not saying you can know everyone who is saved, only the Lord knows that. But you can tell if someone who claims to be saved is truly saved.The Bible does tell us that we can tell.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by ...[text shortened]... me saved, is another topic. It would be up to the Lord and we do not know what the future holds.
Being born again is being saved.
But not everyone who is born again is saved.
Still thats what you people preach. Born again = salvation
Only Christ knows who is saved.
You can tell by their works.
But works is not important.
And Prittybetta can also tell if someone is truly saved.
She can just look at them and know.
So both Christ and Pritybetta know who is saved.
Also you can tell that I am not saved.
I suggest you do society a favour and check into the nearest mental institution.
See, there you go again, nit picking and changing what has been said to suit your agenda.
Originally posted by Rajk999
"Let me see if I read you right.
Being born again is being saved."----Yes
"But not everyone who is born again is saved."---No, I said not everyone who claims to be born again is saved.
"Still thats what you people preach. Born again = salvation"---You people? 😉 😛
"Only Christ knows who is saved."---He knows everyone who will be and are saved.
"You can tell by their works."---Yes
"But works is not important."---Yes they are, they are the resalt of salvation.
"And Prittybetta can also tell if someone is truly saved."---Most people I can, not all. I can tell by listening to them, seeing how they act, etc. I can not always tell right off the bat.
"She can just look at them and know."---NO, refer to my last statement.
"So both Christ and Pritybetta know who is saved."---I and others can tell, refer to the same statement above and the forth one.
"Also you can tell that I am not saved."---I can tell by your responses and the way you present them.
"I suggest you do society a favour and check into the nearest mental institution."---I will not stoop to your level and respond to this statement.
Originally posted by Rajk999Rajk999,
Let me see if I read you right.
Being born again is being saved.
But not everyone who is born again is saved.
Still thats what you people preach. Born again = salvation
Only Christ knows who is saved.
You can tell by their works.
But works is not important.
And Prittybetta can also tell if someone is truly saved.
She can just look at them and know. ...[text shortened]... m not saved.
I suggest you do society a favour and check into the nearest mental institution.
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I suggest you do society a favour and check into the nearest mental institution.
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I suggest that you give up reading the two or three sentences from the Bible.
Try handling some simple comic books for awhile like, maybe Archie or Lulu. Not too many pages at first. You can't take anything with too many aspects to it.
Maybe after you cut your teeth on some comic books for a few years you can graduate to at least a mediocre two-bit theological heretic.
Originally posted by jaywillLOL ... are you trying to score points with Pritybetta?
Rajk999,
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I suggest you do society a favour and check into the nearest mental institution.
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I suggest that you give up reading the two or three sentences from the Bible.
Try handling some simple comic books for awhile like, maybe Archie or Lulu. ...[text shortened]... omic books for a few years you can graduate to at least a mediocre two-bit theological heretic.[/b]
Maybe you really believe that she can tell who is saved and who is not?
You people are confused.
I suggest you start listening to the Words of Jesus.
His words have the power of salvation.
His words are simple and easy to understand.
All this convoluted foolishness about being saved as soon as you are born again and cannot lose your salvation and its guaranteed is unscriptural manmade doctrines designed to get more people in the church, so that the greedy pastors can buy their big houses and live extravagantly.
You, PrityBetta and whoever preach this garbage are selling 'salvation' by preaching lies. Christ never taught these lies, and there is a special place in hell for people like you that mislead the gullible and the weak minded. Good Luck to you. Discussion over.
Originally posted by pritybettaSo you could know that you were saved, but not be saved?
Originally posted by snowinscotland
[b]So if I 'am saved', I am saved from the wrath of God.
But to be 'sure of salvation', I have to judge my own life, if truely sincere, I can then be sure of salvation; which means I am saved from the wrath of God.? I am weak and fallable, because I still do not understand the difference.
Ok, Lets try ...[text shortened]... are not the same thing. Being sure doe not make you saved, it just means you know you are.[/b]
And I could be saved, but not know it.
I still don't get it.
Your example of a child coming to believe something by use of witnesses I am not sure I am comfortable with. The child could be deceived by well meaning relatives into coming to 'know' something that is not true.
Originally posted by Rajk999Did you say "unscriptural and manmade"? Not according to my Bible.
All this convoluted foolishness about being saved as soon as you are born again and cannot lose your salvation and its guaranteed is unscriptural manmade doctrines designed to get more people in the church, so that the greedy pastors can buy their big houses and live extravagantly.
Ephesians 1:13-14
(13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
2 Corinthians 1:22
(22) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Ephesians 4:30
(30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Romans 8:9
(9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Titus 3:5-7
(5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
(6) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
(7) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Corinthians 6:11
(11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.