Originally posted by chaney3
And that is merely your opinion. And, once again.....somebody telling me that they know EXACTLY what God's thoughts and intentions are. If you knew for CERTAIN who Jesus is, then this debate would not be happening. The Bible was written by humans.....to what extent the Holy Spirit was involved remains to be known. No offense to you Hinds, but....your bel ...[text shortened]... t: Who says that Orthodox Christianity has THE truth?? You are easily making my points for me.

These are not merely my opinions, they are the opinions from the Holy Bible. It is you that do not know for certain who Jesus is; that is the reason for this so-called debate. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
These are not merely my opinions, they are the opinions from the Holy Bible. It is you that do not know for certain who Jesus is; that is the reason for this so-called debate. 😏

So to be clear.....YOUR Jesus is the correct Jesus.....and the Jesus of the Jehovah Witness faith is the wrong Jesus?? You know this for certain? If so, please tell me how you know this for sure. Then, after that, explain why Jews of today don't believe that Jesus was anything but an 'okay teacher'.

Originally posted by chaney3
So to be clear.....YOUR Jesus is the correct Jesus.....and the Jesus of the Jehovah Witness faith is the wrong Jesus?? You know this for certain? If so, please tell me how you know this for sure. Then, after that, explain why Jews of today don't believe that Jesus was anything but an 'okay teacher'.

It is about time for me to go to bed and to explain all that will take a long time. So I will just point you to a reference that gives a brief contrast between the JW beliefs and the orthodox Christian beliefs about Jesus. Then you can ask specific questions once you understand the differences. General questions are not very helpful.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r005.html

Originally posted by chaney3
Okay......was not trying to doubt your faith. What is oddly true though, is that a Buddhist would feel exactly the same about Buddha, and not God. He would not feel the need to look for God, because he has Buddha. If one were to believe that only one true God exists, then I find it remarkable that this paradox exists......with many more faiths and gods than just the God of the Old Testament and Buddha.

I cannot speak for Buddhist only myself.

Originally posted by twhitehead
By saying that you believe something, you are declaring that you are correct. That is what the word 'believe' means. All you are really saying is that you wont force your beliefs on others, nor do you have sufficient reasons for your beliefs that you are willing to try and convince others of their validity.

No, no and no to all three.

This is exactly where you and I got stuck last time - clearly your use of the English language is not the same as the rest of us.

If I say " I believe something" it is shorthand for: To the best of my knowledge at present, and with full recognition that I may in future gather further facts that could assist me in revising my current belief, I have come to the conclusion that such-and-such is the best explanation for the observed facts."

chaney3, I salute you. You have come so far the closest to verbalising my own spiritual position.

Originally posted by chaney3
Okay......was not trying to doubt your faith. What is oddly true though, is that a Buddhist would feel exactly the same about Buddha, and not God. He would not feel the need to look for God, because he has Buddha. If one were to believe that only one true God exists, then I find it remarkable that this paradox exists......with many more faiths and gods than just the God of the Old Testament and Buddha.

Since you have taken it upon yourself to speak for the Buddhist, I'll ask you, in that belief
system are they fulfilled with all they need in it, or do they work towards an end?

Originally posted by CalJust
No, no and no to all three.

This is exactly where you and I got stuck last time - clearly your use of the English language is not the same as the rest of us.

If I say " I believe something" it is shorthand for: To the best of my knowledge at present, and with full recognition that I may in future gather further facts that could assist me in revising my ...[text shortened]... haney3, I salute you. You have come so far the closest to verbalising my own spiritual position.

"You have come so far the closest to verbalising my own spiritual position."

And what is that position? That you have no firm convictions, and what you believe is subject to change, like being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine?

Originally posted by josephw
And what is that position? That you have no firm convictions, and what you believe is subject to change, like being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine?

No, by seeing the futility and ridiculousness of all your absolutely sure convictions, even whilst arguing with each other about why THEIR absolutely sure conviction is wrong!

Go figure...

Originally posted by CalJust
No, by seeing the futility and ridiculousness of all your absolutely sure convictions, even whilst arguing with each other about why THEIR absolutely sure conviction is wrong!

Go figure...

The Jehovah's Witnesses are fond of quoting the last part of the following verse:

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Proverbs 3:5

Then they lean unto the understanding of the Watchtower Society and their OWN special translation of scripture. 😏

Originally posted by KellyJay
Since you have taken it upon yourself to speak for the Buddhist, I'll ask you, in that belief
system are they fulfilled with all they need in it, or do they work towards an end?

Honestly, I have no idea what the Buddhists think or believe. It was just an example of other people worshiping someone other than Jesus, and how Christians would say that they are fools. I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. They are still apparently waiting for their 'Messiah'. I find this odd, because during the time of Christ, while He walked the earth and performed His miracles, surely the Jews would have been convinced 2,000 years ago....but they were not. Fast forward to present day, where seemingly endless translations of His words have taken place, and MANY debates about what the text 'meant' to say in Greek, or Arabic, or whatever language.....and a modern day person must believe in something now, that the Jews at the time did not.....and still don't.

For someone who may be seeking Jesus to be their God, and gathering information, it doesn't appear to be a 'cut and dry' issue. What aggravates me is how many people will firmly give their advice on the matter as if they themselves were seated at the Last Supper with Jesus, and got firsthand knowledge of what He meant to say, and how they should believe.

Originally posted by chaney3
I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. I find this odd, because during the time of Christ, while He walked the earth and performed His miracles, surely the Jews would have been convinced 2,000 years ago....but they were not

What aggravates me is ho ...[text shortened]... er with Jesus, and got firsthand knowledge of what He meant to say, and how they should believe.

I have spoken to some Jewish friends about this, and the official view seems to be that the rabbis of the day, who saw Jesus first hand, would be the best equipped to make an intelligent judgement call.

Because THEY did not recognise Jesus as the messiah, their opinion must be respected and not second-guessed after 2000 years.

Whether that reasoning is sound, is a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Since you have taken it upon yourself to speak for the Buddhist, I'll ask you, in that belief
system are they fulfilled with all they need in it, or do they work towards an end?

I know a little bit about Buddhism, and I can tell you that they are totally fulfilled in it.

ESPECIALLY no more striving and working towards an end. In fact, if you do something (e.g. a good deed, or penance) for some purpose, or towards some end, other than simply for its own sake, then that activity is discounted and meaningless (i.e. NOT contributing to good karma).

We Christians could learn from that, and stop our ceaseless striving for "something else out there." Or trying to "improve ourselves".

Originally posted by CalJust
I know a little bit about Buddhism, and I can tell you that they are totally fulfilled in it.

ESPECIALLY no more striving and working towards an end. In fact, if you do something (e.g. a good deed, or penance) for some purpose, or towards some end, other than simply for its own sake, then that activity is discounted and meaningless (i.e. NOT contributin ...[text shortened]... nd stop our ceaseless striving for "something else out there." Or trying to "improve ourselves".

Buddhists may be completely fulfilled....and happy. But, are they going to Heaven?

Originally posted by chaney3
Honestly, I have no idea what the Buddhists think or believe. It was just an example of other people worshiping someone other than Jesus, and how Christians would say that they are fools. I am more astonished at how today's Jewish people still only believe in the God of the Old Testament, and do NOT believe at all in Jesus Christ. They are still apparentl ...[text shortened]... er with Jesus, and got firsthand knowledge of what He meant to say, and how they should believe.

The New Testatment tells us why the Jews have been blinded to the truth of Christ, and don't overlook that the rest of the Israelites did accept Jesus as the Christ. This reminds me of a jury trial in which one of the twelve holds up the verdict.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The New Testatment tells us why the Jews have been blinded to the truth of Christ, and don't overlook that the rest of the Israelites did accept Jesus as the Christ. This remind me of a jury trial in which one of the twelve holds up the verdict.

But it is the Christian belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, and therefore Heaven. So, if the Jews do not believe in Jesus.....for whatever reason, they are doomed to 'hell' along with the Buddhists, right? If I am seeking the 'true God'....or 'correct God', and I am being told that it is only Jesus Christ, and that I should repent and follow Christ....what about the millions and millions of people who do not share this belief system. They are apparently doomed to the burning hell that is being discussed in another thread. It doesn't seem to make sense that an Almighty Creator would set up a system that is designed to cause such confusion among the world....that is guaranteeing that most will end up in the Lake of Fire.