Originally posted by whodey That is exactly right it is by the grace of God. Not only that we are still here also even though we are a fallen race as well but only by the grace of God. So I guess you view all the blood on the hands of the human race are equally God's fault. Oh well, some blame God, some blame the devil, some blame their parents, some blame their socioeconomic status ...[text shortened]... ilures in ones life. I guess it is preferable to looking inward. What a scaaaary thing to do.
If god exists, he is the cause of everything that happens. If he is going to get credit for all the good stuff, then he has to take the blame for all the bad as well. You can't say that he only did the good stuff, but the bad stuff, well...that's someone else's fault. It's a package deal, my friend. God is either responsible for everything, or he's responsible for nothing.
Originally posted by rwingett If god exists, he is the cause of everything that happens. If he is going to get credit for all the good stuff, then he has to take the blame for all the bad as well. You can't say that he only did the good stuff, but the bad stuff, well...that's someone else's fault. It's a package deal, my friend. God is either responsible for everything, or he's responsible for nothing.
Well if he is all powerfull then it stands to reason that he could make us accountable for our own actions via free will. Now if free will did not exist then I would conceede that God would be culpable for all of the evil in the world, however, that simply is not the case.
It seems funny to me that in the secular world we are held accountable for our actions because common sense tells us we have free will. This is not always the case but usually the case. Every now and then someone throws up a defense blaming society or their parents etc. If I wrong someone I go to jail of pay a fine, however, throw God in the picture and it all changes. What a crock.
Originally posted by whodey Well if he is all powerfull then it stands to reason that he could make us accountable for our own actions via free will. Now if free will did not exist then I would conceede that God would be culpable for all of the evil in the world, however, that simply is not the case.
It seems funny to me that in the secular world we are held accountable for our acti ...[text shortened]... I go to jail of pay a fine, however, throw God in the picture and it all changes. What a crock.
No, your belief system is a crock. Yeah, when you throw a 3 O being who supposedly created everything and can do anything, it does shift the moral culpability discussion a bit. It's quite incredible that you can't grasp this.
Originally posted by josephw As Christians we take a stand for the truth of god as it is revealed in God's word, the bible. There is no room for equivocation. Jesus Christ is Lord! All other gods are not gods at all.
This is the position all true believers take, and is the reason why we are despised.
No, you're despised because you're a self-righteous prick.
Originally posted by whodey To say that worshipping any god is the same as worshiping the one true God would be to divorce yourself from, not only the Old Testament, but the New Testament as well. Anyone, (including Mother Theresa or Ghandi or Dudly Do Right for that matter) is welcome to do so, but they would be starting their own religion if they did so. Either God has created a mes ...[text shortened]... rence which is the opposite of love. Does anyone want to serve a God that is not a God of love?
Since you admit in another thread that you couldn't even understand the Bible until your Fundie friends explained it to you, you're not much of an expert. To obliquely accuse Mother Theresa of "indifference" is pretty ignorant even for you.
Originally posted by whodey Well if he is all powerfull then it stands to reason that he could make us accountable for our own actions via free will. Now if free will did not exist then I would conceede that God would be culpable for all of the evil in the world, however, that simply is not the case.
It seems funny to me that in the secular world we are held accountable for our acti ...[text shortened]... I go to jail of pay a fine, however, throw God in the picture and it all changes. What a crock.
Prattling on endlessly about "free will" only serves to mask god's culpability in relation to so-called human evils. The fact remains that there are an endless variety of natural evils that cannot be written off to mankind's "free will." So when a tsunami obliterates 300,000 people there is no way you can plausibly write that off as being a product of mankind's defects. God either caused that tsunami directly, or he sat idly by and watched it run its course without lifting a finger to stop it. If he exists at all, a god who is capable of such levels of maliciousness, or of such gross neglect, is fit only to be despised, not worshipped.
But freewill itself is wholly incompatible with an omniscient and omnipotent god. Such a god (if he should exist) is the source of every causal chain of events, some of which will subsequently include you wronging someone else. Even before he set these events in motion, god foresaw that you would commit this great wrong and he would know the exact time you would do it. The only possible conclusion is that god approved of you doing this, or he could have easily altered the beginning chain of events beforehand so as to reach a different (and presumably more desirable) conclusion. Every wrong that is committed is done with god's full foreknowledge and must have either his wholehearted approval, or at least his tacit consent. When Eve allegedly ate from the apple, god knew beforehand that she would do so. It is impossible that she could have taken an omniscient god by surprise. If mankind is 'fallen' it is precisely because god wanted him to fall. Simply put, there is absolutely no room for freewill in relation to an omniscient and omnipotent god.
Originally posted by mancityboy The following may suggest not.
: In an interview with a nun who works with "Mother" Teresa (reported in Christian News ), dying Hindus were instructed to pray to their own Hindu gods!:
"These people are waiting to die. What are you telling them to prepare them for death and eternity? She replied candidly, 'We tell them to pray to their Bhagwan, to t ...[text shortened]... salvation.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/mothther.htm
What do people think?
Of course she was a christian. She was a bloody nun!
And when people are dying, only the naive, the stupid or the fanatical would try to convert them.
Don't be silly. Wake up to reality. It's not about who's God's right or wrong. It's about helping people at a trying time in their life.
Originally posted by rwingett Prattling on endlessly about "free will" only serves to mask god's culpability in relation to so-called human evils. The fact remains that there are an endless variety of natural evils that cannot be written off to mankind's "free will." So when a tsunami obliterates 300,000 people there is no way you can plausibly write that off as being a product of manki ...[text shortened]... re is absolutely no room for freewill in relation to an omniscient and omnipotent god.
As I have said before, if none of God's creation had "fallen" then could we then claim that we actually have free will? I don't think so. Having said that, there is a difference between knowing something is going to happen and wanting something to happen. For example, if I have a child I know for a fact that at a certain point that child is going to defy me. However, I have the child anyway even though I may know this for a fact and do not wish for the child to ever defy me.
Originally posted by no1marauder Since you admit in another thread that you couldn't even understand the Bible until your Fundie friends explained it to you, you're not much of an expert. To obliquely accuse Mother Theresa of "indifference" is pretty ignorant even for you.
I have no idea what you are talking about here. When did I say that I needed my Fundie friends to explain things to me? All I can say is God help us if we do prove that God exists. I can just hear the lawyers arguements as we speak. Everything is the Super Duper Big Guy's fault!!!
Originally posted by josephw As Christians we take a stand for the truth of god as it is revealed in God's word, the bible. There is no room for equivocation. Jesus Christ is Lord! All other gods are not gods at all.
This is the position all true believers take, and is the reason why we are despised.
Wrong. The reason you're despised is that you're so far up your own fundement. This does not apply to the majority of christians (on this bored or in reality) who are resonable loving humans
Originally posted by mancityboy The following may suggest not.
: In an interview with a nun who works with "Mother" Teresa (reported in Christian News ), dying Hindus were instructed to pray to their own Hindu gods!:
"These people are waiting to die. What are you telling them to prepare them for death and eternity? She replied candidly, 'We tell them to pray to their Bhagwan, to t ...[text shortened]... salvation.
Originally posted by rwingett Prattling on endlessly about "free will" only serves to mask god's culpability in relation to so-called human evils. The fact remains that there are an endless variety of natural evils that cannot be written off to mankind's "free will." So when a tsunami obliterates 300,000 people there is no way you can plausibly write that off as being a product of manki ...[text shortened]... re is absolutely no room for freewill in relation to an omniscient and omnipotent god.
Originally posted by rwingett By the bible's account, wherever a total is listed, we can tally the total number of people that god has killed. According to scripture, that total checks in at a whopping 2,270,365 people. As their numbers are impossible to tally, this total does not include the great flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, or the slaying of all the firstborn of Egyp ...[text shortened]... bel him a maniacal god of hate.
Originally posted by rwingett If god exists, he is the cause of everything that happens. If he is going to get credit for all the good stuff, then he has to take the blame for all the bad as well. You can't say that he only did the good stuff, but the bad stuff, well...that's someone else's fault. It's a package deal, my friend. God is either responsible for everything, or he's responsible for nothing.
How about satan's role, mister secular fundamentalist ? Any room for this creature in your theology ? Just a thought, Rwingo.
Is Mother Teresa a Christian?
09 Apr '07 02:49
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