Spirituality
30 Aug 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterDo you and dj2 copy & paste from the same tired sources? I swear I've seen that tripe verbatim from him, too.
I believe in God because of the bible.The Bible is the only known religious document with historically verifiable prophecies that have consistently been fulfilled. This point cannot be overstated. That the Bible has dozens of prophecies that can be verified by historians as having been accurately fulfilled is very strong proof that God is its Author. The ...[text shortened]... next few days or weeks. Only God could be the source of the accurate prophecies in the Bible.🙂
Originally posted by David CAt a fairly basic level only, I confess. Other than Judaism, which I would think I understand reasonably well given that the 'Old Testament' is in fact the Jewish scriptures.
Understandable, but let me ask you this...have you also investigated the Torah? The Qu'ran? Any religious system other than christianity?
I do understand, though, that the Christian theology of salvation as a gift rather than something earned is a fairly fundamental point of difference. And that's what really attracted me - that God recognized the mess and had a rescue plan. That's the kind of God I want to know.
Originally posted by orfeoOh really? I think I would much prefer a god who didn't mess everything up in the first place. Only an incompetant bungler of a god would allow things to deteriorate so badly that he needed a rescue plan. If we're talking about omnipotent gods here, don't you think you would want to aim just a tad higher than that?
At a fairly basic level only, I confess. Other than Judaism, which I would think I understand reasonably well given that the 'Old Testament' is in fact the Jewish scriptures.
I do understand, though, that the Christian theology of salvation as a gift rather than something earned is a fairly fundamental point of difference. And that's what really attrac ...[text shortened]... e - that God recognized the mess and had a rescue plan. That's the kind of God I want to know.
Originally posted by rwingettAny God that simply denied there was a problem with the world AS IT IS would not be an improvement, no.
Oh really? I think I would much prefer a god who didn't mess everything up in the first place. Only an incompetant bungler of a god would allow things to deteriorate so badly that he needed a rescue plan. If we're talking about omnipotent gods here, don't you think you would want to aim just a tad higher than that?
I'm not going to get into the whole omnipotence thing. In this thread of all threads, let's just stick to the observable state of the world. The 'omnipotent' god that you're postulating that doesn't allow anything bad to happen clearly doesn't exist. Because bad things happen.
In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
Originally posted by orfeoIn which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
Any God that simply denied there was a problem with the world AS IT IS would not be an improvement, no.
I'm not going to get into the whole omnipotence thing. In this thread of all threads, let's just stick to the observable state of the world. The 'omnipotent' god that you're postulating that doesn't allow anything bad to happen clearly doesn't ex ...[text shortened]... who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the theist squirms and tries to pass the buck, he cannot reconcile the presence of evil with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god. The three "O" god is a logical contradiction that cannot exist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.
Originally posted by rwingettWhat amazes me most is it takes an atheist to figure out the obvious.
[b]In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the t ...[text shortened]... ist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.[/b]
There must be something wrong in the theists philosophy , It's either evil as the bible describes it doesnt exist or God as the bible describes Him is flawed.
Originally posted by rwingettBecause I don't want to fall into the mortal sin of Cut 'n Paste, I suggest a google on "Theodicy" would provide a wide range of philosophical answers to your three "O" question.
[b]In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the t ...[text shortened]... ist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.[/b]
Personally I would go for the "free will" theodicy.
Originally posted by rwingettNo matter how the theist squirms and tries to pass the buck, he cannot reconcile the presence of evil with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god.
[b]In which case, the alternative is a god who knows bad things happen, but who doesn't give a damn. I think that would be pretty sucky.
But that's what you're clearly left with. A sucky god. The title of this thread should have been "Is (the christian) god a logical contradiction?" In which case the answer would be "yes". No matter how the t ...[text shortened]... ist. He must lack at least one of the three Os traditionally attributed to him. Maybe all three.[/b]
So man messes up and then it's God's fault? If I gave you free-will and clearly instructed you on what not to do, would it be my fault if you got yourself into a mess by doing exactly what I told you not to do?
Originally posted by HalitoseIt would be a refreshing change from the garbage the theists on this site keep filling up the forums with. I might suggest that you have your theistic accomplices do a little homework themselves. Maybe it would improve the quality of their arguments to the point of semi-coherency.
Because I don't want to fall into the mortal sin of Cut 'n Paste, I suggest a google on "Theodicy" would provide a wide range of philosophical answers to your three "O" question.
Originally posted by dj2beckerJust keep passing the buck, dj. God gets the credit for everything good and man gets the blame for everything bad. Uh huh. I don't think it works that way. Either god takes the credit for everything or he gets credit for nothing. It's a package deal.
[b]No matter how the theist squirms and tries to pass the buck, he cannot reconcile the presence of evil with an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent god.
So man messes up and then it's God's fault? If I gave you free-will and clearly instructed you on what not to do, would it be my fault if you got yourself into a mess by doing exactly what I told you not to do?[/b]