Originally posted by Halitose
Yep. You got the imagery perfectly -- God picking a hapless struggling victim up by the ears and giggling maniacally as He tosses him into a giant fire.

Your view of 'hell' doesn't align with powershaker's view.

So I am glad we agree at least to some extent.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Certainly the Trinity is a dogma that predates the Church in any formal sense.

Could you clarify what you mean by "formal sense" here?

Certainly the Church hierarchy of Bishops/Elders, Priests/Presbyters/Ministers and Deacons is not a post-Biblical construct - they're mentioned all over Acts and the Epistles. What's more, St. Clement of Rome (writing about the same time as John's Gospel) goes into great lengths to describe the hierarchy in his writings.

So if, as you assert, the Trinity is a post-Biblical construct, then the formal Church certainly precedes the dogma of the Trinity.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Could you clarify what you mean by "formal sense" here?

A Church of believers unified by a single figurehead as opposed to a bunch of disparate
churches led locally by a bishop who may or may not advocate Orthodox views.

Nemesio