Originally posted by fiestaHow can God respond all the time when people shut him out...people hate him,scorn him and are angry with him...how can he help if you and others are shutting him out!!!
I would say... Dear God ...thank you for helping me understand that people we love very much are taken away from their children/spouses/siblings/parents/lovers for a reason, that all the hoping/wishing for a miracle to happen, promising to sing your praises forever will stop the pain of someone close to you slipping away ... NOT!
He could have prevented all this. He's almighty, he could have made it so that people wouldn't do evil, wouldn't do harm, wouldn't feel pain. This is your religion I am talking about. He's the one that makes us incurably ill. He's the one that invented cancer and aids and gave mankind handicaps. And to support twhitehead: you are not answering the questions with the answer 'free will'. It's like answering 2+2 = cookies. Cookies are true, they are real, yes, but it's completely besides the point. In that view, you have to explain why your answer 'free will' does answer the question or stop saying 'free will' and put your fingers into your ears afterwards when people ask you to elaborate.
If I met God...
I'de tell Him/Her what a great job S/He did maiking places like Yellowstone Park, Tahiti, Brazilian rainforest etc..., and then apologize for my part in polluting it all. Oh yeah, and warn him if S/He ever goes to Tiajauna, to keep His/Her wallet in a front pocket, and don't drink the water
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oh and btw, explain in your view that people who love god with all their heart and give their entire life to him, why they STILL will suffer the most horrible things.
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Are you suggesting that everyone who trusts in God should only have a rosy comfortable life all the time?
Wait a minute.
I was born with a physical defect.
I lost a job.
I have difficulty raising a teenage daughter.
I am hated by some peope in a certain area of the country.
I have gum desease.
I had a car accident.
According to your view since all the people who believe in God have nothing but life long rosy sweet circumstances, why should I trust God? He doesn't know how to deal with people with problems.
What is this, that faith in God cannot be tested by adverse situations? If that were the case the Bible would only be perhaps half a chapter instead of 66 books.
Here, the secret. God wants to work Himself into man. He want to dispense His life and nature into the fabric of man's being. Adverse circumstances can assist Him in mingling Himself with us.
Face it, it is usually trouble that causes people to call out to God.
Oh certainly, when you're in trouble you should stick even closer to your religion, that makes you a true believer. My problem though is that I don't think it's very just. How come when people beg god to help them, god still lets them suffer? And I personally have great problems in willing to believe a god that wants to test if you really believe in him by making people miserable, sad or even hurt. I can compare this with what the Americans do at Guantanamo: they interrogate and torture people, cause they feel that the information they could potentially gain is more important to them. Your god kills your loved ones just to see if you believe in him, to get that information about you? You know, I wouldn't WANT to believe in a god that cruel!
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He could have prevented all this. He's almighty, he could have made it so that people wouldn't do evil, wouldn't do harm, wouldn't feel pain.
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As I see God acting in history and through the record of the Bible, it is clear that He is moving in that direction. He is moving and working toward that climax. And He does eventually prevail to abolish evil, sin, death, and pain.
There must be something about His creation humans which makes more problem for Him do work out His will. We don't seem to be robots that respond at the push of a button.
I think in man's circumstances happened something like this:
God creates a special creature and establishes a great relationship with him. Then He warns man.
"This is our relationship. You can keep it or you can mess it up. Now if you mess it up, if you destroy it, remember, YOU cannot fix it. I have to fix it.
You, man, have the ability to destroy this relationship. But if you do I, God, have to be the one to repair it. Remember that."
[Strictly paraphrase].
Man destroys the relationship. And then he says. Oh, I made a mistake. Okay, I'll fix it back as before. But no, man has to be reminded. If he damages the relationship God has to be the one to come in and restore it.
And if you believe the prophetic word of the Sciptures, you believe that He will. While He is working to restore it some complain as to why He let it go bad in the first place. They blame God.
"When a man's way brings him to ruin, his heart rages against the Lord."
Thank you, that finally is a reasonable answer.
The other way around is just as clear: when something good happens, they praise the Lord. How can you say that only good things come from god and the bad things don't?
I would like to see your view on the opus creationis and the opus reparationis. Wasn't it god's will that led menkind to destruction? And if it was, how can I not blame god for everything that's bad in the world?
And all the evil in the world isn't just the doing of men. There's lions eating those beatifull zebra's, incurable diseases that kill the innocent, nature disasters that also kill the innocent. That's all god's creation, not mankind. Did god make that many mistakens to create a world full of murder? How come Jesus can ask menkind to love oneanother while his father created the world to be the opposite. I know I shouldn't compare god to menkind, that's an ancient fault, but... it illustrates my point.
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I would like to see your view on the opus creationis and the opus reparationis. Wasn't it god's will that led menkind to destruction? And if it was, how can I not blame god for everything that's bad in the world?
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A big breakthrough for me was coming to understand the Fall of man. Rebellion of the arch-angel and of man caused the universe to collapse into a heap.
The introduction in universe of another will beside the will of God is responsible for the heap of collapse which is the fallen creation.
It is better that God leave some indications around that something is wrong so that we would be reminded that it is an abnormal situation.
You know we have some happiness in our lives. I don't think you can deny that you have had some amount of happiness in your life. In spite of some happiness every now and then something reminds you that everything is not alright. If you are sick it is good that the body feels pain so that you know something is wrong.
Disease, sickness, war, the evils of men's deeds are the reminders that we are as a creation collapsed into a heap of rebellion led by some of God's creatures. Like the pain in your body signaling that you need a physician, some things remind us that we are dependent on God.
We have been injected with a thought that has made us think that we are in no need of God. We need reminders that we are dependent of God.
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And all the evil in the world isn't just the doing of men. There's lions eating those beatifull zebra's, incurable diseases that kill the innocent, nature disasters that also kill the innocent. That's all god's creation, not mankind. Did god make that many mistakens to create a world full of murder? How come Jesus can ask menkind to love oneanother while his father created the world to be the opposite. I know I shouldn't compare god to menkind, that's an ancient fault, but... it illustrates my point.
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It is correct that before the flood all the animals seemed to have been vegetarians. God is very wise. He can keep the creation together yet somehow fine tune it so that it does not degenerate into total chaos. The habits of the carnivors are under His control.
But history is moving towards the restoral of harmony under the headship of Christ. And the sons of God will be manifested. And the creation itself will be freed from its bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. They with Christ head up the new creation:
"For I consider that the suffereings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the coming glory to be revealed upon us.
For the anxious watching of the creation eagerly awaits the revelation of the sons of God.
For the creation was made subject to vanity, not of its own will, but becaise of Him who subjected it.
In hope that the creation itself will also be freed from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groans together and travails in pain together until now.
And not only so, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan in ourselves, eagerly awaiting sonship, the redemption of our body ..." (Romans 8:19-23)
The key to the release of the creation is the salvation of the sons of God. So if you really care about the suffering creation you should let Jesus come into your heart and begin to fill you up with His nature unti even your body will be glorified.
Creation is waiting for man to be transformed by Christ's salvation. The proper heading up of the sons of God will result in the proper heading up from the collapse of the universe.
To accept Jesus and be saved and blablabla, do you have to believe in everything it says in the Bible?
Do you have to accept earth was created in 6 days, is 10000 years old (+/-), defend creationism and all the nonsense? And animals were vegetarians before the flood??? I can't believe someone said this. It made you look very ridiculous.