If God exists........

Originally posted by whodey
Let me rephrase. As human being we need to have meaning or a reason to get up in the morning. Granted, we may not think we do in which case you will more than likely not want to get up in the morning. Depression and such would then set in and you would probably contemplate suicide. At this point the longer this goes on, the more likely your bodily physiol ...[text shortened]... ed purpose and something to look foreward to in order to promote a fertile environment for life.

There is a difference between the words 'reason' and 'meaning'. I am not aware of any 'meaning' for my life but that does not stop me desiring a life or desiring to get up in the morning.

Originally posted by twhitehead
My desire to live is not related to life having a meaning.

Why? Life in and of itself could have meaning. This is the most basic form of meaning that would prevent you from commiting suicide.

Originally posted by Halitose
Why? Life in and of itself could have meaning. This is the most basic form of meaning that would prevent you from commiting suicide.

Look--the antidote to suicide is happiness. One can embrace absurdity and still be perfectly happy. One can be completely disinterested in the meaning of life and live in bliss. Worrying about the meaning of existence has driven some to suicide! Hakuna matata.

Originally posted by Halitose
Why? Life in and of itself could have meaning. This is the most basic form of meaning that would prevent you from commiting suicide.

Life may or may not have meaning. It is cirtainly not a requirement for life. And no, my reasons for not commiting suicide have nothing to do with life having meaning. For a start, for me to commit suicide do to a percieved lack of meaning in life I would first need to have a very strong desire for such a meaning exceeding my natural desire to live. And it would still not be logical to commit suicide as that would not bring meaning to my life either. So I would need to believe that the only possible purpose for living is meaning while having absolutely no desire for life.
I think you will find that nearly all suicides are due to the desire to avoid something such as pain rather than due to the percieved lack of something. Even people who strongly believe that thier life will not amount to anything do not routinely commit suicide.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Look--the antidote to suicide is happiness. One can embrace absurdity and still be perfectly happy. One can be completely disinterested in the meaning of life and live in bliss. Worrying about the meaning of existence has driven some to suicide! Hakuna matata.

Are you are positing happiness as a criterion for providing meaning?

Originally posted by Halitose
Are you are positing happiness as a criterion for providing meaning?

I'm sure you could have packed more syllables into that sentence. No, happiness and meaning can live separate lives. Or not. It doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I'm sure you could have packed more syllables into that sentence. No, happiness and meaning can live separate lives. Or not. It doesn't matter.

I contend that happiness is a symptom of meaning.

Edit: Dang! Just to push up the syllable count.

Originally posted by Halitose
I contend that happiness is a symptom of meaning.

Contend away, that doesn't make it so. Does a happy child sit around cudgelling its brains about meaning? This is where Zen (and similar let-go approaches) really works.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Contend away, that doesn't make it so. Does a happy child sit around cudgelling its brains about meaning? This is where Zen (and similar let-go approaches) really works.

We seem to differ in our definition of meaning. What do you mean with "meaning"?

Originally posted by Halitose
We seem to differ in our definition of meaning. What do you mean with "meaning"?

What do you mean with "meaning"?

Didn't mean to scare ya away. 😛

Originally posted by twhitehead
Life may or may not have meaning. It is cirtainly not a requirement for life. And no, my reasons for not commiting suicide have nothing to do with life having meaning. For a start, for me to commit suicide do to a percieved lack of meaning in life I would first need to have a very strong desire for such a meaning exceeding my natural desire to live. And i ...[text shortened]... ho strongly believe that thier life will not amount to anything do not routinely commit suicide.

Same question I asked BdN: define meaning.

Originally posted by Halitose
We seem to differ in our definition of meaning. What do you mean with "meaning"?

Ah, you've just reminded me of Hilary Putnam and aliens. Thanks!

(This is completely unconnected to the debate. Please ignore.)

Originally posted by Halitose
We seem to differ in our definition of meaning. What do you mean with "meaning"?

Generally I use the plain meaning of a word if I can.

Pick one:

1. Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or significance.
2. Something that one wishes to convey, especially by language: The writer's meaning was obscured by his convoluted prose.
3. An interpreted goal, intent, or end: “The central meaning of his pontificate is to restore papal authority” (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
4. Inner significance: “But who can comprehend the meaning of the voice of the city?” (O. Henry).

I suspect you are talking about number 4.

Originally posted by Halitose
Same question I asked BdN: define meaning.

It means different things in different contexts. Our context is in this phrase 'the meaning of life' or this one 'the meaning of your life' or this one 'your life has meaning'. Whatever the case knowlege of it is not the only prevention against suicide.
'Meaning' implies some inherant purpose beyond just existance or actions.

If we don't clear up the meaning of 'meaning' will one of us will commit suicide? 🙂

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Generally I use the plain meaning of a word if I can.

Pick one:

1. Something that is conveyed or signified; sense or significance.
2. Something that one wishes to convey, especially by language: The writer's meaning was obscured by his convoluted prose.
3. An interpreted goal, intent, or end: “The central meaning of his pontificate is to restor ...[text shortened]... he meaning of the voice of the city?” (O. Henry).

I suspect you are talking about number 4.

Right. With all your definitions, there's the central theme of a direction, a goal or destination -- the realisation, if you wish, of such a concept.

Is the notion of happiness not much the same -- an emotion caused by a prior event? Can one be happy for its own sake? Can happiness rest on its own – uncaused and ungrounded?