08 Sep 09
Originally posted by menace71For the life of me, I can't understand how both trinitarian and JW can agree that Jesus created us yet he is not our God according to the JW. Do you understand this line of logic?
I was reading some back ground on this John 20:28 and it would ridiculous for a Jew to address a fellow associate or Human in this manner. The Jews being highly monotheistic. The surprising thing is Jesus once again does not rebuke him for this at all.
Manny
08 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyif it was not for you having lost a recent game to my friend Scriabin, i would be hard on you, as it is, i think you could do with all the help you can get. What is it about Gods Holy Spirit, working through Christ that you cannot understand? The miracles were performed through Christ, by means of Gods Holy Spirit. Even the ancient Hebrews 2000 years ago understood this! the Universe was created through Christ, by means of Gods Holy Spirit.
For the life of me, I can't understand how both trinitarian and JW can agree that Jesus created us yet he is not our God according to the JW. Do you understand this line of logic?
(Colossians 1:16-17) . . .All other things have been created through him and for him.
however by elevating the Holy Spirit to a personage, you cannot comprehend this simple truth. it really is amazing in our eyes that you are so mixed up.
08 Sep 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis does not change the fact that Christ created us. By default, he then becomes are God on some level. Why would God defer glory to another when it belongs ONLY to himself?
What is it about Gods Holy Spirit, working through Christ that you cannot understand? The miracles were performed through Christ, by means of Gods Holy Spirit. Even the ancient Hebrews 2000 years ago understood this! the Universe was created through Christ, by means of Gods Holy Spirit.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyI tried to find my posting on this earlier but can't find it now but to explain it simply is that God himself created his first creation according to the Bible which is termed the "firstborn" and who is "Jesus". The Bible mentions that he loved him so much that he let Jesus with his Fathers help and with the use of the Holy Spirit or God's active force, create all that we see.
This does not change the fact that Christ created us. By default, he then becomes are God on some level. Why would God defer glory to another when it belongs ONLY to himself?
It is no different then if a human has a son and then out of love for him intrust his son to take on a large construction project of some kind. The father is the one who designed the project and is there to advise, but it is the son that is doing the work.
True we don't understand the creation process and the incredible knowledge and power that it would take to create this awesome universe, but that does not mean that we should not accept that Jesus in spirit form could not create, especially with his Fathers help. Remember the Bible says that Jesus lowered himself to take on a human form when he came to earth. So we have no way of knowing the power he had as a spirit and even now as he is back in heaven.
Who are we to say he can't create anything?
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiecareful, you almost sound like a trinitarian there robbie
if it was not for you having lost a recent game to my friend Scriabin, i would be hard on you, as it is, i think you could do with all the help you can get. What is it about Gods Holy Spirit, working through Christ that you cannot understand? The miracles were performed through Christ, by means of Gods Holy Spirit. Even the ancient Hebrews 2000 ye ...[text shortened]... cannot comprehend this simple truth. it really is amazing in our eyes that you are so mixed up.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by duecerAhhhhh Gavelston help me, ive been assimilated into the collective subconscious of the borgatarians!
careful, you almost sound like a trinitarian there robbie
na seriously Deucer my friend, this is the view that we hold, according to scripture.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewhen you say it that way, its not a far stretch to being trinitarian. I believe we are closer in beliefs than we are apart.
Ahhhhh Gavelston help me, ive been assimilated into the collective subconscious of the borgatarians!
na seriously Deucer my friend, this is the view that we hold, according to scripture.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by dueceryes, as there is a fine line between genius and madness! the main thing of course being , that Christ was a created entity, the only thing directly created by God, (the only begotten as the scriptures indicate), all other things being created through Christ and rather interestingly, for Christ.
when you say it that way, its not a far stretch to being trinitarian. I believe we are closer in beliefs than we are apart.
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou & Greenpawn34 play each other right? You two can meet half way or something. I'm no good at chess but I enjoy it. yeah that was a serious blunder. I was so proud of myself for getting the trap right but then it was struggle ! : )
Its there manny, just as 15.Ba6 mate was there, you just need to look for it 😉
Manny
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08 Sep 09
Originally posted by whodeyI wouldn't know where to start on the fatal self-paradox of this statement, so I'm not going to even try....
This does not change the fact that Christ created us. By default, he then becomes are God on some level. Why would God defer glory to another when it belongs ONLY to himself?
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by menace71no i have never played greenpawn34, he just happens to be an adoptive Scot (he was born in England, spit ding!, but his mother is Scottish, so he understands the culture and the banter, as it is termed). You did really well my friend, i was as per usual, just making fun 😉
You & Greenpawn34 play each other right? You two can meet half way or something. I'm no good at chess but I enjoy it. yeah that was a serious blunder. I was so proud of myself for getting the trap right but then it was struggle ! : )
Manny