19 Apr 12
Originally posted by mikelomPrimitive man also knew God could protect him and was afraid of being
I have posted this reference on many occasion, and each time it seems to serve its own warranted need, in order to have a different fresh perspective which is frequently forgotten but has sense and logic.
I post these words in response to the OP, and to those my may find it of some relevance to their own view point.
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[b]Do Buddhists believ ...[text shortened]... , and he encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.
-m. 😉
abandoned by God after his disobedience. Man now has rumors to go on.
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19 Apr 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritTheists (particularly evangelicals and fundamentalists) seem to have a hard time grasping the
ah, the hate card has been played.
it was only a matter of time. i suppose googlefudge "hates" your god about as much as he "hates" the joker from the dark knight movie.
concept of "not believing in gods".
They seem not to be able to wrap their heads around, or believe, that people can happily go about
their business without having any sort of belief in any sort of deity so they delude themselves by
thinking that atheists do believe in their particular god but we hate that god for some reason and thus
pretend not to believe.
This is of course nonsense but then they believe so much nonsense to begin with one more bit of nonsense
is hardly a stretch.
This is but one example of how religion and believing things on faith can destroy or suppress peoples
ability to reason.
19 Apr 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeIf they just took a moment to think about it and wonder whether they themselves might lack faith in Thor and Santa Claus due to some repressed feelings of hate they might finally see the light. But as you say, deluded people are hardly rational.
They seem not to be able to wrap their heads around, or believe, that people can happily go about
their business without having any sort of belief in any sort of deity so they delude themselves by
thinking that atheists do believe in their particular god but we hate that god for some reason and thus
pretend not to believe.
Originally posted by googlefudge
Theists (particularly evangelicals and fundamentalists) seem to have a hard time grasping the
concept of "not believing in gods".
They seem not to be able to wrap their heads around, or believe, that people can happily go about
their business without having any sort of belief in any sort of deity so they delude themselves by
thinking that atheis ...[text shortened]... ow religion and believing things on faith can destroy or suppress peoples
ability to reason.
Theists (particularly evangelicals and fundamentalists) seem to have a hard time grasping the
concept of "not believing in gods".
It is amusing to be informed by you that evangelical Christians have a problem grasping "not believing in gods".
By the time we get to say, First and Second Kings, we can see that there are plenty of "gods" not to believe in, and "golden calfs" too.
We read of Baal, we read of other gods of the Philistines, Midianites, Egyptians, etc. Is the Bible silent on the fact that there were plenty of "gods" of the nations ? We hardly had to wait until being informed by you about the idols, gods, godesses, worshipped demons, etc. of the nations.
They seem not to be able to wrap their heads around, or believe, that people can happily go about
their business without having any sort of belief in any sort of deity so they delude themselves by
thinking that atheists do believe in their particular god but we hate that god for some reason and thus
pretend not to believe.
In the words of Mose Allison (a jazz singer) "Your mind is on vacation and your mouth is working overtime."
20 Apr 12
1 edit
Originally posted by mikelomThank you for this post. I think it comes closest to my own thoughts on the subject, and is very comprehensive. I sometimes think that Buddhism is incorrectly labelled as a religion (and therefore rejected by those who follow one god or another) when it would more appropriately be called a philosophy, or a life plan.
[b]Do Buddhists believe in god?
No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas, and especially the god idea, have their origin in fear. {text shortened}
He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart, and he encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.
-m. 😉[/b]
20 Apr 12
Originally posted by jaywillSo do you secretly hate all those gods or do you realise that it was whodey whose "mouth was working overtime"?
We read of Baal, we read of other gods of the Philistines, Midianites, Egyptians, etc. Is the Bible silent on the fact that there were plenty of "gods" of the nations ? We hardly had to wait until being informed by you about the idols, gods, godesses, worshipped demons, etc. of the nations.
20 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyGod is proved every day in a million ways by everything that exists that has complexity and design.........but one must be honest to accept this fact.
I think I have dwindled down the reasons people do not believe in God to two reasons.
1. God cannot be proved.
2. If there is a God, he would not allow "X" or cause "X" to happen.
What say you? Are there any others?
If we all live in a free world where we all have free will - how can you ask that God must not let a thing happen.
If something happens it happens due to the results of cause and affect......karma.
Are you saying that the law of cause and affect should cease to operate because you do not approve the negative result dished out by the law of cause and affect.........which you yourself created?
Ultimately all affects are but an illusion and dust in the wind.
I have told you this many times.
Thus all affects are just affects which are created by each person by the words they speak - the thoughts they think and the deeds they do.
If you received an affect of winning the lottery by the law of karma - you would like the law of cause and affect very much.........correct.
Negative and positive are just labels describing the type of affect.
Originally posted by googlefudgeReason is why we accept the reality of God.
Theists (particularly evangelicals and fundamentalists) seem to have a hard time grasping the
concept of "not believing in gods".
They seem not to be able to wrap their heads around, or believe, that people can happily go about
their business without having any sort of belief in any sort of deity so they delude themselves by
thinking that atheis ...[text shortened]... ow religion and believing things on faith can destroy or suppress peoples
ability to reason.
Rejecting God is the result of having NO reason and no honesty and no sense.
And you must be rejecting all observation.
What does your observation tell you? (rhetorical question)
That everything came from an explosion.
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20 Apr 12
Originally posted by DasaYou do not understand and misuse the terms;
Reason is why we accept the reality of God.
Rejecting God is the result of having NO reason and no honesty and no sense.
And you must be rejecting all observation.
What does your observation tell you? (rhetorical question)
That everything came from an explosion.
evidence
prove
reason
observation
honesty/dishonesty
sense
false
true
knowledge
science
evolution
and probably many more.
Why should I [or anyone else] even try to have a debate with you when you refuse to
use words in the way that everyone else uses and understands them and when you
consistently lie and ignore anyone else's position while being wholly ignorant about almost
everything?
Particularly since you are an odious and unpleasant fellow who likes to call for genocide,
insults anyone and everyone who disagrees with you, has no respect for free speech or
differing opinions, is highly bigoted, and does nothing but spam the same incoherent propaganda
rather than listening to and responding to the questions you have actually been asked.
20 Apr 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeBut other than that.....
You do not understand and misuse the terms;
evidence
prove
reason
observation
honesty/dishonesty
sense
false
true
knowledge
science
evolution
and probably many more.
Why should I [or anyone else] even try to have a debate with you when you refuse to
use words in the way that everyone else uses and understands them and when you
consis ...[text shortened]... aganda
rather than listening to and responding to the questions you have actually been asked.
20 Apr 12
Originally posted by DasaDude, this is just a one stop thread as to what arugmeent atheists use against the existence of a God. As for myself, I beleive in God.
God is proved every day in a million ways by everything that exists that has complexity and design.........but one must be honest to accept this fact.
If we all live in a free world where we all have free will - how can you ask that God must not let a thing happen.
If something happens it happens due to the results of cause and affect......karma.
Are y ...[text shortened]... ry much.........correct.
Negative and positive are just labels describing the type of affect.
Geesh. 😕
21 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyWhat exactly did you mean before when you claimed that you are biased in your worldview?
Dude, this is just a one stop thread as to what arugmeent atheists use against the existence of a God. As for myself, I beleive in God.
Geesh. 😕
By claiming that all persons have a 'bias', if all you mean to say is that one's worldview is invariably to some extent influenced and conditioned by certain external factors (such as their milieu, upbringing, inculcation, etc), then yes you are right, though I am not sure that is the best way to state that fact. What's your point? And how would this observation serve to justify your obvious prejudice against those who call themselves 'agnostic'?
21 Apr 12
7 edits
Originally posted by LemonJelloMy point is that none of us are 100% objective. Facts by themselves are meaningless. It is only when we assign them meaning that they are......well.....meaningful. Unfortunately, to assign them meaning entails us stepping outside those facts and into a belief system of some kind in order to interpret those facts, thus moving from objective to subjective.
What exactly did you mean before when you claimed that you are biased in your worldview?
By claiming that all persons have a 'bias', if all you mean to say is that one's worldview is invariably to some extent influenced and conditioned by certain external factors (such as their milieu, upbringing, inculcation, etc), then yes you are right, though I a tion serve to justify your obvious prejudice against those who call themselves 'agnostic'?
Of course, this is all assuming we have gathered the facts correctly. That is not always the case, but that his for another thread.
Those that do not proport a belief system in God, tend to lead us to believe that belief should be cast aside in favor of reality and the facts. However, they fail to grasp my point above. We all believe things that cannot or have not been proven whether we are willing to admit this or not. This is because belief systems are vital in interpreting the world around us. If we were unable to do so, then we would be forced to prove everything we think we know. As impossible as that might be, we would still not have a value associated with it. Such an existence is unthinkable.
So once we embrace a worldview, or belief system, then we build upon it. Then as we build upon it, we invest upon it as if slowly constructing a building. The more bricks and morter, the bigger the cost in casting it aside. However, some belief systems must be done away with for various reasons. At this piont we encounter a crisis of sorts where the realization hits us that we must start over. Subconsciencely we all know this, thus we fight to the death to defend our respective beleif systems. At this point we encounter many who may not be truthful with themselves or other posters on this site. I think we see this from both sides. The worst of this devolves into name calling and personal attacks. If the truth be know, we have things to learn from each other, no matter how insignificant they may be.
To sum up, discussing this reminds me of the parable Christ once used when building upon sand verses solid ground. If your foundation is faulty, at some point you will be faced with the realization that all you have built upon will come crashing down as you incur a great loss. Such is the loss of a belief system that you have built upon that is not based upon truth.