- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Here Rajk999 says something somewhat like what I have written and re-written on this Forum for years.
Jesus also washes people clean by his sacrifice. Its a two part process.
I have pointed out from Romans 5:10 that there is a "judicial redemption" plus an "organic saving" specified - like two parts of god's full salvation.
Let's see it yet again.
" For if we being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Rom. 5:10)
1.) As to the past, the one believing in Christ has been reconciled to God by Christ's death. He has been eternally redeemed.
2.) As to the present he is in the process of being saved in the sphere and realm of Christ' indwelling him. He is being saved "in His life".
And this should be "much more".
Christians need "much more" of the "much more".
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
14 Apr 18
Concerning Romans 5:10 above.
Notice it is not being saved in our self effort or in our self improvement or self striving to turn over a new leaf and better ourselves. it is to be saved in the realm of Christ's life dispensed into those reconciled.
" ... much more we will be saved in His life ..."
Make no mistake. Rajk999 has such contempt and utter disdain for this. This is "lazy" to Rajk999.
But Paul, who pioneered living by Christ, said he had NO CONFIDENCE in the religious flesh. All of his confidence was in the operating Holy Spirit who moves and operates with our cooperation.
" Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision.
For we are the circumcision, the ones who serve by the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh." (Phil. 3:3)
Because Rajk999's confidence is in the religious flesh, every attempt to help Christians to get into being saved in His life is met with criticism that this is loving sin and "mouth worship."
Rajk999 would condemn Paul's boast in Christ Jesus as "mouth worship" of one loving to continue to live sinfully.
He says this because he has SO MUCH confidence in his religious flesh rather than in the Spirit of God.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
14 Apr 18
Coming back to the OP of how to be washed in the blood.
it is not too hard. It is to BELIEVE in the redemption of Christ.
Believe in the power of the blood of Jesus to cleanse away your sins.
The HOW TO is really to believe and stand upon with praise and thanksgiving. Do so and do so often.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Of the top of my head I recall a couple of reactions to this thread.
ThinkOfOne - as usual wants to say there is no such thing as redemption through the blood of Christ in the Bible.
That is obviously wrong.
Divegeester - Being a cautious (don't go too far Unitarian) says in essence - ie. Don't go so extreme. WASHED?? Just "sprinkled" is biblical.
This objection is not as serious as the first one.
I'll take sprinkled and even more washed.
Then there's Rajk999. He thinks trusting in the blood to redeem us is a copout to not doing your religious duty to self improve.
To Rajk999 all trust in Christ's work and in Christ's life is shirking one's religious duty, "mouth worship", and loving to still live in sin.
You couldn't dislodge him from this prejudice with a crowbar. He's stuck there, maybe for the rest of his life.
The HOW TO be WASHED (OK sprinkled or purged or freed or released or cleansed too) is to believe and stand upon the facts stated in the Bible.
Stand on it in the face of Satan's accusations.
And stand upon it often. We believers never outgrow the need to stand upon Christ's redemption no matter how "improved" you think you have become.
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from every sin." (1 John 1:7)
"Knowing that it was not with corruptible things, with silver or gold, that you were redeemed from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers,
But with precious blood, as of a Lamb without blemish and without spot, the blood of Christ." ( 1 Peter 1:18,19)
Originally posted by @rajk999What are also of importance are the parallels between Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 18
Some great references there.
Jeremiah 31
29 “In those days they will not say again,
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30“But everyone will die for his own iniquity; each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge.
34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Ezekiel 18
2“What do you mean by using this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying,
‘The fathers eat the sour grapes,
But the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
3“As I live,” declares the Lord GOD, “you are surely not going to use this proverb in Israel anymore. 4“Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
21 "But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.
30“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
Each will be judged according to his own ways.
The righteous (those who cease to sin) will live.
Those who continue to sin will die.
For the righteous, none of his transgressions will be remembered against him BECAUSE OF HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Inexplicably in the OP Jaywill asserts that Jeremiah 31 says that "Your sins and your iniquities He will by no means remember any more under the blood of Jesus" when in fact it has nothing to do with being "washed in the blood". Rather it is contingent on the individual becoming righteous (ceasing to sin)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by @thinkofoneHow would you go about proving that the dealing of sins in those passages is related to eternal destinies?
What are also of importance are the parallels between Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 18
Jeremiah 31
29 [b]“In those days they will not say again,
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’
30“But everyone will die for his own iniquity; each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be ...[text shortened]... re under the blood of Jesus" when in fact it has nothing to do with being "washed in the blood".
David sinned in stealing a man's wife and arranging to have him murdered. David was forgiven by God.
However, David did not escape some amount of "recompense" in the difficulties of his consequences for his sin. He was sorely disciplined. The consequences of his having sinned we notice he did not completely escape.
Eternal redemption does not tie God's hands so that there could be no "recompense" in kind for errors committed.
Redemption from eternal condemnation does no necessarily mean escape from all discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins.
14 Apr 18
Originally posted by @sonshipEternal redemption does not tie God's hands so that there could be no "recompense" in kind for errors committed.
How would you go about proving that the dealing of sins in those passages is related to [b]eternal destinies?
David sinned in stealing a man's wife and arranging to have him murdered. David was forgiven by God.
However, David did not escape some amount of "recompense" in the difficulties of his consequences for his sin. He was sorely discipline ...[text shortened]... es no necessarily mean escape from all discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins.[/b]
Redemption from eternal condemnation does no necessarily mean escape from all discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins.
Evidently God sees things differently:
Ezekiel 18
21 "But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
14 Apr 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneMy question to you was how would you prove that to be related to eternal destinies?
[b]Eternal redemption does not tie God's hands so that there could be no "recompense" in kind for errors committed.
Redemption from eternal condemnation does no necessarily mean escape from all discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins.
Evidently God sees things differently:
Ezekiel 18
21 "But if the wicked man turns from a ...[text shortened]... e remembered against him[/b]; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live.[/b]
You haven't demonstrated that yet.
And I am not saying that you can't. But I am asking you to demonstrate how you would.
if you know you can't then just say so.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
There will be a great deal of piety in ThinkOfOne's explanations. One should not forget that underneath all his expositions is Atheism.
No matter to what degree he engages in theological talk, with theological terms, theological expressions and concepts and principles, underneath all this talk there is no Theos.
Ie. " I am going to explain to you all how God works, how God thinks, God's ways, and what God said and even how God forgives." That is his public posture.
Behind all of that is his secretive commitment.
"Only man exists. There is no God."
Originally posted by @sonshipC'mon jaywill.
My question to you was how would you prove that to be related to eternal destinies?
You haven't demonstrated that yet.
And I am not saying that you can't. But I am asking you to demonstrate how you would.
if you know you can't then just say so.
What "discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins" could there possibly be for an individual when " “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him"?
- Joined
- 31 Jan 18
- Moves
- 3456
14 Apr 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneThe discipline can and does take place on earth.
C'mon jaywill.
What "discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins" could there possibly be for an individual when " “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him"?
“And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.”
(Hebrews 12:5-11)
14 Apr 18
Originally posted by @romans1009You don't seem to understand the context of the question.
The discipline can and does take place on earth.
“And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with ...[text shortened]... he peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.”
(Hebrews 12:5-11)
The question was rhetorical, but I'll rephrase since it seems to have gone over your head:
How can there be "discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins" when " “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him"?
- Joined
- 31 Jan 18
- Moves
- 3456
14 Apr 18
Originally posted by @thinkofoneI believe the second part is referring to eternity. The Bible is clear that the Lord will discipline His children while they are on earth. It’s part of the process of sanctification and the testing of one’s faith.
You don't seem to understand the context of the question.
The question was rhetorical, but I'll rephrase since it seems to have gone over your head:
How can there be "discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins" when " “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him"?
14 Apr 18
Originally posted by @romans1009Try reading jaywill's posts as well as mine.
I believe the second part is referring to eternity. The Bible is clear that the Lord will discipline His children while they are on earth. It’s part of the process of sanctification and the testing of one’s faith.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
14 Apr 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIf God doesn't exist what need is there for forgiveness either temporal or eternal?
C'mon jaywill.
What "discipline resulting from the consequences of one's sins" could there possibly be for an individual when " “All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him"?
What ultimate government has been transgressed against, if Atheism is true?
In fact what transgression has been committed if there is no law giving God?
When I come back I will respect and give attention to your question. In the meantime don't ignore mine behind a lot of "C'mon jaywills".