04 Jun 05
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'
FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'
SIX: 'You shall not murder.'
SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'
EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'
NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'
How manny have you broken?.... hmmm...
1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10
hell i only got 6 to go then i get the "express ticket" to Hell.. yay...
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by xxxenophobeIn paganism, the "other world" after death is Elysium, as I recall; in Wicca, they call it "Summerland", correct? I believe that Summerland is an outgrowth of Elysium. Nice place, I gather, warm and full of friendly folk reviewing their life lessons as they prepare for another kick at the can in another body on Earth. So don't worry, man. In pagan or Wiccan traditions Hell does not exist. Neither does it exist in any of the Eastern traditions, at least not in the non-remedial, eternal variety with the non-refundable one-way ticket.
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it ...[text shortened]... 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10
hell i only got 6 to go then i get the "express ticket" to Hell.. yay...
So you see, the only people in the Judeo-Christian Hell are failed Judeo-Christians. 😉
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by xxxenophobeHow many did you commit just today?
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it ...[text shortened]... 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10
hell i only got 6 to go then i get the "express ticket" to Hell.. yay...
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by xxxenophobeNo atheist can break the first one.
ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it ...[text shortened]... 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10
hell i only got 6 to go then i get the "express ticket" to Hell.. yay...
04 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by PhlabibitI left Christianity about 30 years ago, when I was a young man. Since then, I don't even think in terms of "hating it". It's just another religion, somewhat interesting, somewhat flawed. Any power its doctrinal assertions have over me, on any psychological levels, evaporated long ago. More than anything, it is basically irrelevant for anyone searching for the perennial philosophy of humanity's great wisdom traditions.
RBHill says, 'Athiests worship No God... so athiesm is a religion, and they hate Christians'.
Or some such garbage.
ES
Christ is not irrelevant, because like Buddha, Socrates, Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Nagarjuna, Tilopa, Hakuin, Meister Eckhart, and so on, he was likely a great sage. But the religious organization that purports to carry his spirit is mostly an irrelevancy, except in terms of historical interest.
04 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by MetamorphosisI'm with you, most any athiest really doesn't hate Jesus... they just don't believe. I myself do believe, but I don't believe in organized religion, and I don't believe that Jesus... if he is the Christ of not... would want people to go to Hell just cuz they believe something else.
I left Christianity about 30 years ago, when I was a young man. Since then, I don't even think in terms of "hating it". It's just another religion, somewhat interesting, somewhat flawed. Any power its doctrinal assertions have ove ...[text shortened]... s mostly an irrelevancy, except in terms of historical interest.
It's crazy in my mind, yet some users at this site will try to claim Good People go to Hell, and only the Saved will go to Heaven. They treat it like a private club.
ES
04 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by MetamorphosisMy wife and I once visited a (Soto) Zen center. We were invited to go and look at the zendo with the words, “But please don’t walk in front of the altar.” My wife later said, “Sounds just like church to me.”
I left Christianity about 30 years ago, when I was a young man. Since then, I don't even think in terms of "hating it". It's just another religion, somewhat interesting, somewhat flawed. Any power its doctrinal assertions have ove ...[text shortened]... s mostly an irrelevancy, except in terms of historical interest.
None of the traditions are irrelevant, even though flawed. If one finds St. Paul’s ouketi ego, she has found samadhi; If one finds Paul’s in emoi Christos, he has found the tahthagata
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by PhlabibitI think you're on the right track in terms of discerning the spirit of Jesus as distinct from doctrinal Christianity. One has to see him in the context of humanity's rich tradition of sage-hood and wisdom, not in terms of rigid doctrinal codes implemented by so-called "authorities".
I'm with you, most any athiest really doesn't hate Jesus... they just don't believe. I myself do believe, but I don't believe in organized religion, and I don't believe that Jesus... if he is the Christ of not... would want people to go to Hell just cuz they believe something else.
It's crazy in my mind, yet some users at this site will try to ...[text shortened]... ople go to Hell, and only the Saved will go to Heaven. They treat it like a private club.
ES
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by vistesdWisdom traditions are certainly not irrelevant, that is, where the "wisdom" is mined, if you will, from the doctrine. But I call religious organization "irrelevant" for one whose interest is in identifying the process of spiritual liberation that is naturally free of religious mandates or doctrinal beliefs.
My wife and I once visited a (Soto) Zen center. We were invited to go and look at the zendo with the words, “But please don’t walk in front of the altar.” My wife later said, “Sounds just like church to me.”
None of the traditions are irrelevant, even though flawed. If one finds St. Paul’s ouketi ego, she has found samadhi; If one finds Paul’s in emoi Christos, he has found the tahthagata
In other words, it's not necessary to "believe" in the heaven or hell as taught in Buddhist doctrine, or Christian doctrine, in order to experience the spiritual liberation alluded to and sometimes specifically taught, in those traditions. Nor is it necessary to believe in the cosmic "standing" of Christ or Buddha in order to grow spiritually.
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by PhlabibitThere is no No God but Nothing!
RBHill says, 'Athiests worship No God... so athiesm is a religion, and they hate Christians'.
Or some such garbage.
ES
I suppose I'm agnostic, but I don't really know.
The Bible is just a collection of old stories, if people find wisdom in it, fine.
RB seems to hate other types of Christians.
04 Jun 05
2 edits
Originally posted by MetamorphosisThere is a saying (I forget if it is originally Hindu or Buddhist): Once you have crossed the river, you can leave the boat behind. However—
Wisdom traditions are certainly not irrelevant, that is, where the "wisdom" is mined, if you will, from the doctrine. But I call religious organization "irrelevant" for one whose interest is in identifying the process of spiritual ...[text shortened]... mic "standing" of Christ or Buddha in order to grow spiritually.
1) There is never need to disparage the boat(s) that “brung me here” because it was a leaky rowboat, rather than a sleek in-boarder. (And I did not take it that you were doing that!)
2) I think it is alright to walk back to the river, climb in the boat, and paddle about for awhile.
Ramakrishna, a Vedantist and student of Shankara, was once questioned by other Vedantists about his kali/shakti bhakti, with its implied dualistic theism. He replied something to the effect: “I like fried fish—but not for every meal.”
3) How many times have I crossed the river—and then suddenly found myself back on the original shore again! Let’s see—is this a boat hidden in the weeds?
I really do not think we are in any disagreement; we’re just adding personal footnotes to each other’s text….
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by MetamorphosisIts nice to see the relaxed atmosphere within this thread......no one needs to be commanded to believe in religion.
I think you're on the right track in terms of discerning the spirit of Jesus as distinct from doctrinal Christianity. One has to see him in the context of humanity's rich tradition of sage-hood and wisdom, not in terms of rigid doctrinal codes implemented by so-called "authorities".
Some people need and are fulfilled by their religion,seems to help them live by good morals and ethics.......some live themselves by morals and ethics.......
Theres no doubt about the wisdom of Jesus words......and that there is a grace (a goodness) in them, like many great men.........or many wise words...they are a reminder to us, to Love and take care of each other.....
Each of us has a conscience......that reminds us of any sins we may commit......we have choices.......everyday, to improve ourselves our outlook for ourselves and others.
It comes from within.......
gil
04 Jun 05
Originally posted by MetamorphosisWhat is the "spirit" of Jesus that is distinct from "doctrinal Christianity"??
I think you're on the right track in terms of discerning the spirit of Jesus as distinct from doctrinal Christianity. One has to see him in the context of humanity's rich tradition of sage-hood and wisdom, not in terms of rigid doctrinal codes implemented by so-called "authorities".
We have a very different understanding of what "spirit" means. I think you idea of "spirit" is very different than what Christ spoke of if the Gospel is to be believed.