07 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by PsychoPawn[/i]Hah.. well at least you admit your argument is lame. That's something.
That's a lamer argument than anything I could come up with.
Hah.. well at least you admit your argument is lame. That's something.
Same with everything else then. The skullcaps, the prayer, etc.
Yes, and?
Well, it's so arbitrary to believe otherwise.
Arbitrary? I have no idea what you mean.
[i]Again, it's useless. thout it, yes. However it seems to have a use. Here's where I guess I agree with you 🙂
Yes, but yours is lamer. And there's still nothing that you have really against circumcision except a virulent hatred of Jewish and Islamic culture.
Yes, and? [in response to "Same with everything else then. The skullcaps, the prayer, etc."
And what? What more do you need?
Arbitrary? I have no idea what you mean.
How did the universe come to be then? Now, I believe firmly in the Big Bang, and the 13 billion year old Earth, and evolution, but it didn't just happen on its own.
Again, it's not.
You're right though, it's like the appendix: useful.
You have provided nothing to support your claim that the foreskin's useful, except for something about friction and one's pants.
As for the appendix: maybe that wasn't the best comparison. But you can easily live without an appendix.
07 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoAnd there's still nothing that you have really against circumcision except a virulent hatred of Jewish and Islamic culture.
[/i][b]Hah.. well at least you admit your argument is lame. That's something.
Yes, but yours is lamer. And there's still nothing that you have really against circumcision except a virulent hatred of Jewish and Islamic culture.
Yes, and? [in response to "Same with everything else then. The skullcaps, the prayer, etc."
And what? What more : maybe that wasn't the best comparison. But you can easily live without an appendix.[/b]
Yes.. I have a virulent hatred OF MY OWN CULTURE. I come from a Jewish family and I had a bar mitzvah actually. You just label everyone as hating your culture if they disagree with you. Classy.
I haven't done or said ANYTHING to imply that I have any hatred of jewish or islamic culture.
but it didn't just happen on its own.
So where's your scientific evidence?
ou have provided nothing to support your claim that the foreskin's useful, except for something about friction and one's pants.
There is more and no, I don't have a direct link or reference to it.
Of course, you have provided nothing to support your claim that offers any benefit that outweighs the cost of removing it.
But you can easily live without an appendix.
You can easily live without your pinky toes. You can easily live without your gall bladder. You can easily live without one kidney.... let's remove all of those at birth according to arbitrary religious beliefs.
07 Jun 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnYes.. I have a virulent hatred OF MY OWN CULTURE. I come from a Jewish family and I had a bar mitzvah actually. You just label everyone as hating your culture if they disagree with you. Classy.
And there's still nothing that you have really against circumcision except a virulent hatred of Jewish and Islamic culture.
Yes.. I have a virulent hatred OF MY OWN CULTURE. I come from a Jewish family and I had a bar mitzvah actually. You just label everyone as hating your culture if they disagree with you. Classy.
I haven't done or said ...[text shortened]... ney.... let's remove all of those at birth according to arbitrary religious beliefs.[/i]
I haven't done or said ANYTHING to imply that I have any hatred of jewish or islamic culture.
The way you're posting, it seems like you're unable to realize the subtleties of Muslim and Jewish culture.
So where's your scientific evidence?
Er ... the Big Bang?
There is more and no, I don't have a direct link or reference to it.
So I'll have to assume that there isn't, until you show it to me. I'm not just going to take your word for it.
Of course, you have provided nothing to support your claim that offers any benefit that outweighs the cost of removing it.
In terms of monetary cost, I concede. In terms of other cost, there is no other cost.
You can easily live without your pinky toes. You can easily live without your gall bladder. You can easily live without one kidney.... let's remove all of those at birth according to arbitrary religious beliefs.
But each of them serves a purpose, or at least keeps your toe count at a nice, round number.
07 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoThe way you're posting, it seems like you're unable to realize the subtleties of Muslim and Jewish culture.
[b]Yes.. I have a virulent hatred OF MY OWN CULTURE. I come from a Jewish family and I had a bar mitzvah actually. You just label everyone as hating your culture if they disagree with you. Classy.
I haven't done or said ANYTHING to imply that I have any hatred of jewish or islamic culture.
The way you're posting, it seems like you're unable to re ach of them serves a purpose, or at least keeps your toe count at a nice, round number.[/b]
Subtleties such as removing body parts? Not very subtle. I also would like to think there are more subtleties than circumcision. If there aren't then frankly the cultures are pretty worthless.
Still. Even an inability to supposedly realize the subtleties of Muslim and Jewish culture isn't a reason (or at least a logical reason) to suggest that someone has a "virulent hatred".
Er ... the Big Bang?
Where's your evidence that it was caused by god? The big bang in itself is NOT evidence of god. The only thing you have is an argument from incredulity that you can't think of any other reason - so it must be god.
So I'll have to assume that there isn't, until you show it to me. I'm not just going to take your word for it.
You're free to assume whatever you want. You assumed I had a virulent hatred towards Jewish and Islamic culture too. You know what you do when you assume 😉
But each of them serves a purpose, or at least keeps your toe count at a nice, round number.
A foreskin also serves a purpose - even if it's a relatively unimportant one in your view.
Maybe someone's religion prefers the number 8 to the number 10 so cut off the pinky toes. After all, they believe god said so, so it must be ok.
07 Jun 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawn[/i]Subtleties such as removing body parts? Not very subtle. I also would like to think there are more subtleties than circumcision. If there aren't then frankly the cultures are pretty worthless.
The way you're posting, it seems like you're unable to realize the subtleties of Muslim and Jewish culture.
Subtleties such as removing body parts? Not very subtle. I also would like to think there are more subtleties than circumcision. If there aren't then frankly the cultures are pretty worthless.
Still. Even an inability to supposedly rea ...[text shortened]... so cut off the pinky toes. After all, they believe god said so, so it must be ok.
Still. Even an inability to supposedly realize the subtleties of Muslim and Jewish culture isn't a reason (or at least a logical reason) to suggest that someone has a "virulent hatred".
I meant, the subtleties of liberal interpretation of the religion.
Where's your evidence that it was caused by god? The big bang in itself is NOT evidence of god. The only thing you have is an argument from incredulity that you can't think of any other reason - so it must be god.
Then what did cause it, in your opinion? Was it Christopher Hitchens?
You're free to assume whatever you want. You assumed I had a virulent hatred towards Jewish and Islamic culture too. You know what you do when you assume 😉
Judging from what you said. Nothing I said, on the other hand, says anything about the usefulness of a foreskin.
A foreskin also serves a purpose - even if it's a relatively unimportant one in your view.
Maybe someone's religion prefers the number 8 to the number 10 so cut off the pinky toes. After all, they believe god said so, so it must be ok.
1. You still haven't given me a reason. You gave me an excuse.
2. Maybe there is such a religion. But it's not Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, or any other major world religion. So it's out of the discussion.
07 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoI meant, the subtleties of liberal interpretation of the religion.
[/i]Subtleties such as removing body parts? Not very subtle. I also would like to think there are more subtleties than circumcision. If there aren't then frankly the cultures are pretty worthless.
Still. Even an inability to supposedly realize the subtleties of Muslim and Jewish culture isn't a reason (or at least a logical reason) to suggest that som tianity, Hinduism, or any other major world religion. So it's out of the discussion.
Sure, still no reason to conclude there was any hatred at all being expressed.
Then what did cause it, in your opinion? Was it Christopher Hitchens?
Yes, it was Christopher Hitchens.
[i]1. You still haven't given me a reason. You gave me an excuse.
2. Maybe there is such a religion. But it's not Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, or any other major world religion. So it's out of the discussion.[/]
1. An excuse? sure.. Think what you want.
2. You're right it's not one of those religions, of course that's beside the point. The point is that you seem to think that religion/superstition is good enough reason to perform useless medical operations to remove parts of a child's body if someone can "live without it". If a new religion emerged that wanted to remove a baby's appendix at birth what would you think?
08 Jun 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnSure, still no reason to conclude there was any hatred at all being expressed.
I meant, the subtleties of liberal interpretation of the religion.
Sure, still no reason to conclude there was any hatred at all being expressed.
Then what did cause it, in your opinion? Was it Christopher Hitchens?
Yes, it was Christopher Hitchens.
1. You still haven't given me a reason. You gave me an excuse.
2. Maybe ther ...[text shortened]... emerged that wanted to remove a baby's appendix at birth what would you think?[/i]
You mocked the two cultures for their rituals. I consider that hatred.
Yes, it was Christopher Hitchens.[that caused the BB]
I rest my case.
1. An excuse? sure.. Think what you want.
So stop avoiding the question and give me a real purpose for a foreskin!
2. You're right it's not one of those religions, of course that's beside the point. The point is that you seem to think that religion/superstition is good enough reason to perform useless medical operations to remove parts of a child's body if someone can "live without it". If a new religion emerged that wanted to remove a baby's appendix at birth what would you think?
If it's not one of the religions, then it's a digression from the discussion. Let's find some common ground here first, then we can digress into other theoretical religions.
08 Jun 09
Originally posted by scherzoYou mocked the two cultures for their rituals. I consider that hatred.
[b]Sure, still no reason to conclude there was any hatred at all being expressed.
You mocked the two cultures for their rituals. I consider that hatred.
Yes, it was Christopher Hitchens.[that caused the BB]
I rest my case.
1. An excuse? sure.. Think what you want.
So stop avoiding the question and give me a real purpose for ...[text shortened]... d some common ground here first, then we can digress into other theoretical religions.[/b]
I for the most part mocked the cultures for their adherence to useless rituals, yes. For that, they deserve mocking.
I don't see mocking as being hatred.
I rest my case.
You either are being deadpan here or you just can't tell sarcasm when you read it.
So stop avoiding the question and give me a real purpose for a foreskin!
The burden of proof is on those who want to perform a procedure - not those who want to claim that it's useless.
I don't think you'd accept a purpose as being "real" in any case.
If it's not one of the religions, then it's a digression from the discussion. Let's find some common ground here first, then we can digress into other theoretical religions
No, it's not a digression from the discussion. ALL religions deserve the same rights. If I said that my religion is called "Appendices Suck" then it's just as valid as Judaism or Islam or Christianity.
You want to keep out any parallel possible results from the irrationality of religion just so you can keep it on your perception that the foreskin is useless so you can impose a procedure on your children to remove it.
I am not suggesting circumcision should be banned, but I think it shouldn't be recommended nearly as often as a medical procedure to be done on a child and it should only be done for logical (i.e. not religious) reasons.
10 Jun 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawn[/i]I for the most part mocked the cultures for their adherence to useless rituals, yes. For that, they deserve mocking.
You mocked the two cultures for their rituals. I consider that hatred.
I for the most part mocked the cultures for their adherence to useless rituals, yes. For that, they deserve mocking.
I don't see mocking as being hatred.
I rest my case.
You either are being deadpan here or you just can't tell sarcasm when you read it.
[ ...[text shortened]... e on a child and it should only be done for logical (i.e. not religious) reasons.
So then, it's cultural hatred!
I don't see mocking as being hatred.
Judaism is a joke.
That's hatred. DISCLAIMER: I don't believe it. I said it because in order to drive the point home, you need to see that mocking can be and often is hatred.
The burden of proof is on those who want to perform a procedure - not those who want to claim that it's useless.
So then, there is no purpose for a foreskin! So there is nothing wrong with circumcision, because the child in question isn't missing anything!
I don't think you'd accept a purpose as being "real" in any case.
Well, no one would consider friction to be any sort of real purpose, in this case.
No, it's not a digression from the discussion. ALL religions deserve the same rights. If I said that my religion is called "Appendices Suck" then it's just as valid as Judaism or Islam or Christianity.
No, it wouldn't. That would be a cult, not a religion.
10 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by scherzoSo then, it's [i]cultural hatred![/i]
[/i][b]I for the most part mocked the cultures for their adherence to useless rituals, yes. For that, they deserve mocking.
So then, it's cultural hatred!
I don't see mocking as being hatred.
Judaism is a joke.
That's hatred. DISCLAIMER: I don't believe it. I said it because in order to drive the point home, you need to see th am or Christianity.[/b]
No, it wouldn't. That would be a cult, not a religion.[/b]
Blah blah blah.. everything boils down to hatred with you. It's not hatred at all.
you need to see that mocking can be and often is hatred.
Strawman argument. I NEVER said mocking NEVER is hatred, I just said it isn't hatred. I guess I should have inserted "necessarily" in there, but still.
So then, there is no purpose for a foreskin! So there is nothing wrong with circumcision, because the child in question isn't missing anything!
You need to take logic classes.
No, it wouldn't. That would be a cult, not a religion.
Cults are religions. Cults are just religions that haven't been accepted in popular culture yet.
10 Jun 09
Originally posted by scherzoJudaism is a joke.
[/i][b]I for the most part mocked the cultures for their adherence to useless rituals, yes. For that, they deserve mocking.
So then, it's cultural hatred!
I don't see mocking as being hatred.
Judaism is a joke.
That's hatred. DISCLAIMER: I don't believe it. I said it because in order to drive the point home, you need to see th ...[text shortened]... am or Christianity.[/b]
No, it wouldn't. That would be a cult, not a religion.[/b]
Another note - I would laugh at that and really not even consider it hatred depending on context.
I mean really, no self-respecting anti-semite would say something so ridiculously simplistic.
I mean, at least use the word jew as a verb or insert an actual derogatory term here or there.
10 Jun 09
When I see scherzo'z method of argument, if this is a common retorics by moslems, then I'm beginning to understand why palestinians cannot ever win their struggle against Israel.
However, scherzo's attempt to make enemies out of us is an attempt of scherzo alone. This is not, I repeat: *not*, the way moslems argues.
I see the tradition of circumcsision as brutal, it has nothing to do with religion, it's just tradition, nothing more, so how he is trying to make hatred against his religion out of it I cannot understand.
Let the baby boys and baby girls be let alone what they had when they was born. That's my opinion. It's there of a reason, noone has to understand it, but it's there, so leave it there.
10 Jun 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasOf course it's not how all muslims act or argue. No group can be defined solely by any small subset of their membership.k
When I see scherzo'z method of argument, if this is a common retorics by moslems, then I'm beginning to understand why palestinians cannot ever win their struggle against Israel.
However, scherzo's attempt to make enemies out of us is an attempt of scherzo alone. This is not, I repeat: *not*, the way moslems argues.
I see the tradition of circumcsis n. It's there of a reason, noone has to understand it, but it's there, so leave it there.
There is a tendency for some in any minority or any group that has had a significant amount of prejudice directed against them to be incredibly sensitive against any perception of hatred causing overreaction to things that aren't meant with any hatred.
I've seen jews, muslims, african-americans (amongst others I'm sure), who seem to interpret any kind of slight as being racism or bigotry. No one is suggesting there isn't bigotry directed against these groups, but not every instance of mockery or otherwise is a product of hatred and/or bigotry.
The tradition of circumcision is tradition, but its roots are in religion. The prevalence of circumcision among non-Jews and non-Muslims in the US came from a tradition born in a prevalent myth rooted in a number of other factors that are rooted in christian puritan beliefs.
11 Jun 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnBlah blah blah.. everything boils down to hatred with you. It's not hatred at all.
So then, it's [i]cultural hatred![/i]
Blah blah blah.. everything boils down to hatred with you. It's not hatred at all.
you need to see that mocking can be and often is hatred.
Strawman argument. I NEVER said mocking NEVER is hatred, I just said it isn't hatred. I guess I should have inserted "necessarily" in there, but still.
...[text shortened]... e religions. Cults are just religions that haven't been accepted in popular culture yet.
Well, when you openly insult my culture without a second thought, what am I supposed to do? Thank you?
Strawman argument. I NEVER said mocking NEVER is hatred, I just said it isn't hatred. I guess I should have inserted "necessarily" in there, but still.
Well, I read it accurately for how you put it.
You need to take logic classes.
Well, you still haven't provided me with any sort of useful purpose for a foreskin that necessitates waiting until the child is older before cutting it off.
Cults are religions. Cults are just religions that haven't been accepted in popular culture yet.
If that's your thinking, than perhaps I can interest you in the CULT of Scientology?
11 Jun 09
Originally posted by PsychoPawnOK, then:
Judaism is a joke.
Another note - I would laugh at that and really not even consider it hatred depending on context.
I mean really, no self-respecting anti-semite would say something so ridiculously simplistic.
I mean, at least use the word jew as a verb or insert an actual derogatory term here or there.
"Jews are stupid dogs."
Does that make you more angry? I've heard it said by stupid idiots before ... really ....