Grace

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Paul and Silas Imprisoned: Acts 16: 22 "The crowd rose up together against them, and the chief magistrates tore their robes off them and proceeded to order them to be beaten with rods. 23 When they had struck them with many blows, they threw them into prison, commanding the jailer to guard them securely; 24 and he, having received such a command, threw ...[text shortened]... in the person and work of Jesus Christ]." Note: Also applicable to every member of Red Hot Pawn.

You have sidestepped my question which was: Do you think mentioning googlefudge's family in this way applies some small degree of extra pressure on him to believe what you believe and abandon his own beliefs?

Originally posted by FMF
You have sidestepped my question which was: Do you think mentioning googlefudge's family in this way applies some small degree of extra pressure on him to believe what you believe and abandon his own beliefs?

Sole intent was to enunciate a scriptural principle not to presume to emotionalize the conversation nor to coerce his free will. Thought about Acts 16 while posting my reply to googlefudge; and now given this opportunity, posted the applicable verses in my reply to you. Nothing more nor less.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Sole intent was to enunciate a scriptural principle not to presume to emotionalize the conversation nor to coerce his free will. Thought about Acts 16 while posting my reply to googlefudge; and now given this opportunity, posted the applicable verses in my reply to you. Nothing more nor less.

You are still dodging my question.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[quote]"About @googlefudge

Vos existimantur cogitare, Antequam vos infringere regulas.

If you believe in a god or gods and claim to know it or they exist then you're a "gnostic theist".

If you believe in a god or gods and don't know if it or they exist then you're an "agnostic theist".

If you don't believe in a god or gods and don't know if ...[text shortened]...
While there's still time, for your sake and your family's sake, I hope and pray it begins to thaw.

Reset for googlefudge.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Dasa, thanks for your lengthy and interesting reply on what "Grace" doesn't mean to you.
Please continue with "What... the five letter word "grace" [does] mean to you?"

I have said in my comments previously that Grace is the common sense to embrace true religion and live a simple and saintly life whilst following the path of true spirituality.

The person who does this has received the Grace of God to see things as they truly are.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Or in other words, a good Friday night out.

if you are enjoying the fact that you are going to be born again for the thousandth,s time into this world of illusion and suffering and death.............then the Fridays nights are good for you.

Originally posted by Dasa
I have said in my comments previously that Grace is the common sense to embrace true religion and live a simple and saintly life whilst following the path of true spirituality.

The person who does this has received the Grace of God to see things as they truly are.

Originally posted by Dasa
"I have said in my comments previously that Grace is the common sense to embrace true religion and live a simple and saintly life whilst following the path of true spirituality.

The person who does this has received the Grace of God to see things as they truly are."
___________________________

On what authority do you base these two statements?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Your mind appears to have become frozen shut with respect to the person and work of Jesus Christ.
While there's still time, for your sake and your family's sake, I hope and pray it begins to thaw.

Well that was a total waste of thread space...

My mind is not frozen shut, it is in fact open.

Unlike you I remain able to change my mind and be convinced.

What that requires however is evidence sufficient to do so.

The fact that no theist anywhere has any such evidence for their pet god/s isn't my fault
for being 'closed minded', instead it's their fault for being gullible.

Open minded doesn't mean believing in any random idea that comes along,
it means being prepared to change your mind if sufficient justification is given
and not before.

You have never presented anything remotely resembling sufficient justification and
thus I do not accept your god claims. Whining about me being 'closed minded' when
that is in fact your crime will get you nowhere.

Also threatening me with whatever version of hell, or your gods murdering me, for not
accepting your claims will also get you nowhere. And will make me regard you personally
as a despicable piece of immoral scum. So unless you want me to continue thinking that
you fail to live up to the standards of what comes out of the south end of a north facing bull,
I suggest that you keep any such thoughts and references to yourself.

Doubly so for threats to my family.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Well that was a total waste of thread space...

My mind is not frozen shut, it is in fact open.

Unlike you I remain able to change my mind and be convinced.

What that requires however is evidence sufficient to do so.

The fact that no theist anywhere has any such evidence for their pet god/s isn't my fault
for being 'closed minded', instead i ...[text shortened]... at you keep any such thoughts and references to yourself.

Doubly so for threats to my family.

Originally posted by googlefudge
"What that requires however is evidence sufficient to do so..."

Please describe and/or define the nature of the evidence you would require.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Dasa
"I have said in my comments previously that Grace is the common sense to embrace true religion and live a simple and saintly life whilst following the path of true spirituality.

The person who does this has received the Grace of God to see things as they truly are."
___________________________

On what authority do you base these two statements?

The Vedic literature is the only Authority on all things spiritual and religious.

True spirituality/religion is ..............Sanatana Dharma.

Religion must be Sanatana Dharma and if it is not it is bogus.

For a start............Vedic authority is the only system of spirituality that CONDEMNS animal slaughter and meat eating (Thou Shalt Not Kill) and also along with drug taking and intoxication and gambling and illicit sex......etc.

Vedic Spiritual Authority is eternal....................and all other religious systems (Christianity/Islam/Judaism) are but fabricated false systems that defend animal slaughter and meat eating.....etc.

If a system of religion cannot even get it right concerning the killing of animals and the eating of flesh....................then that system is immediately false and dishonest and it will mislead and cheat the innocent people.

By the way.............do not just google Vedic Knowledge because you shall find 9 out of 10 web-sites about Vedic knowledge that are bogus due to the fact that they have been created by foolish rascals and puffed up academics who are fresh out of Uni with their PhD in comparative religions and the arts.............but have no truth within them.

And Grace is to have the understanding of what true and false religion is.........................and then to embrace true religion sincerely and to reject false religion.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Well that was a total waste of thread space...

My mind is not frozen shut, it is in fact open.

Unlike you I remain able to change my mind and be convinced.

What that requires however is evidence sufficient to do so.

The fact that no theist anywhere has any such evidence for their pet god/s isn't my fault
for being 'closed minded', instead i ...[text shortened]... at you keep any such thoughts and references to yourself.

Doubly so for threats to my family.

Stop arguing with people who are defending false religion..............and seek true knowledge from true spirituality/religion.

Ask me something............and we shall take it slow from the top.

Originally posted by Dasa
The Vedic literature is the only Authority on all things spiritual and religious.

True spirituality/religion is ..............Sanatana Dharma.

Religion must be Sanatana Dharma and if it is not it is bogus.

For a start............Vedic authority is the only system of spirituality that CONDEMNS animal slaughter and meat eating (Thou Shalt Not Kill) and a ...[text shortened]... .......................and then to embrace true religion sincerely and to reject false religion.

Who wrote "The Vedic literature"?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Who wrote "The Vedic literature"?

Originally there was only one Veda, and there was no necessity of reading it. People were so intelligent and had such sharp memories that by once hearing from the lips of the spiritual master they would understand. They would immediately grasp the whole purport. But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali yuga. He knew that eventually the people would be short-lived, their memories would be very poor, and their intelligence would not be very sharp. "Therefore, let me teach this Vedic knowledge in writing." He divided the Vedas into four: Rg, Sama, Atharva and Yajur. Then he gave the charge of these Vedas to his different disciples. He then thought of the less intelligent class of men-stri, sudra and dvija- bandhu. He considered the woman class and sudra class (worker class) and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu refers to those who are born in a high family but who are not properly qualified. A man who is born in the family of a brahmana but is not qualified as a brahmana is called dvija-bandhu. For these persons he compiled the Mahabharata, called the history of India, and the eighteen Puranas. These are all part of the Vedic literature: the Puranas, the Mahabharata, the four Vedas and the Upanisads. The Upanisads are part of the Vedas. Then Vyasadeva summarized all Vedic knowledge for scholars and philosophers in what is called the Vedanta-sutra. This is the last word of the Vedas.

Vyasadeva personally wrote the Vedanta-sutra under the instructions of Narada, his Guru Maharaja (spiritual master), but still he was not satisfied. That is a long story, described in Srimad Bhagavatam. Vedavyasa was not very satisfied even after compiling many Puranas and Upanisads, and even after writing the Vedanta-sutra. Then his spiritual master, Narada, instructed him, "You explain the Vedanta sutra." Vedanta means "ultimate knowledge," and the ultimate knowledge is Krsna. Krsna says that throughout all the Vedas one has to understand Him: vedanta-krd veda-vid eva caham. Krsna says, "I am the compiler of the Vedanta-sutra, and I am the knower of the Vedas." Therefore the ultimate objective is Krsna. That is explained in all the Vaisnava commentaries on Vedanta philosophy. We Gaudiya Vaisnavas have our commentary on Vedanta philosophy, called Govindabhasya, by Baladeva Vidyabhusana. similarly, Ramanujacarya has a commentary, and Madhvacarya has one. The version of Sankaracarya is not the only commentary. There are many Vedanta commentaries, but because the Vaisnavas did not present the first Vedanta commentary, people are under the wrong impression that Sankaracarya's is the only Vedanta commentary. Be sides that, Vyasadeva himself wrote the perfect Vedanta commentary, Srimad Bhagavatam. Srimad Bhagavatam begins with the first words of the Vedanta-sutra:janmady asya yatah.. And that janmady asya yatah is fully explained in Srimad Bhagavatam. The Vedanta-sutra simply hints at what is Brahman, the Absolute Truth: "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything emanates." This is a summary, but it is explained in detail in Srimad Bhagavatam. If everything is emanating from the Absolute Truth, then what is the nature of the Absolute Truth? That is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Absolute Truth must be consciousness. He is self-effulgent (sva-rat). We develop our consciousness and knowledge by receiving knowledge from others, but for Him it is said that He is self-effulgent. The whole summary of Vedic knowledge is the Vedanta-sutra, and the Vedanta-sutra is explained by the writer himself in Srimad-Bhagavatam. We finally request those who are actually after Vedic knowledge to try to understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.

Originally posted by Dasa
Originally there was only one Veda, and there was no necessity of reading it. People were so intelligent and had such sharp memories that by once hearing from the lips of the spiritual master they would understand. They would immediately grasp the whole purport. But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali yuga ...[text shortened]... understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.

That being said, why is it alright for you to want to kill Muslims? Is that spiritual?

Originally posted by Dasa
Originally there was only one Veda, and there was no necessity of reading it. People were so intelligent and had such sharp memories that by once hearing from the lips of the spiritual master they would understand. They would immediately grasp the whole purport. But five thousand years ago Vyasadeva put the Vedas in writing for the people in this age, Kali yuga ...[text shortened]... understand the explanation of all Vedic knowledge from Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad-gita.

Is there an account in any of this sacred literature about the creation of the universe?

If so, can you summarize it ?