Originally posted by galveston75what is it so hard to understand? god asks us to whorship him. god asks as not to make idols, as in depictions of gods other than him.
Wow..... Maybe you don't but just found a few pics you might like to see. Also notice that it's not just pics of Catholics including your Pope that do this but other religions worldwide that probably your church says are pagans. Very interesting I would think. How does this fit in with Ex 20: 4,5? Have you ever read this scripture I wonder???
It seems ...[text shortened]... on't. So be it....
http://search.aol.com/aol/image?query=catholics bowing to idols&flv=1
icons of saints respect both. we do not whorship them, we do not believe they are equally or more important than god. no sane christian ever said "o, picture of awesome powers depicting some old dude i don't recognize, grant me great stamina in bed".
we pray to mary, we pray to peter, we pray to john. important people having god's favour. we honor them. what do you want? forget them? do you think god forgot them?
the doodz from tha Cana wedding didn't ask jesus for booze. They asked his mother. And his mother asked jesus who imediately gave them some party material. What do you know? Praying to an intermediary worked and no smiting was done that day.
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
Originally posted by galveston75You have already posted this article and I have already refutes its main points. The fact is that the major Christian traditions, Catholic and Orthodox, uses icons and statues -- not to worship them, nor even to worship the saints they represent, but only ever to honor them and ask that these saints pray on their behalf too.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050908a/article_01.htm
Originally posted by Conrau KMatt 7: 13,14, 21-23.
You have already posted this article and I have already refutes its main points. The fact is that the major Christian traditions, Catholic and Orthodox, uses icons and statues -- not to worship them, nor even to worship the saints they represent, but only ever to honor them and ask that these saints pray on their behalf too.
Originally posted by galveston75Do you not know the difference between Catholic and Protestant ?? Not all Christians fall under what your WT article says. By the way the Watch Tower is not the bible so I reject it!! At least the article is coherent!!
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20050908a/article_01.htm
Manny
Originally posted by Conrau KThat's the answer I expected you to give becuase these verses are pointed directly to false religions that are popular and have a huge affect on the world and would have a large amount of followers. And they would claim all the wonderful things they've done in the name of the Lord. This scripture is in the Bible for a reason and does apply to something that God will do away with. Does it not?
Once again you cite Scripture that has no relevance whatsoever.
But your saying it has no relevance, only proves how false religions have blinded their flock to very simple and clear scriptures about so much in the Bible such as "Do not have graven images in your midst" even if you don't worship them as you yourself say.
But when a person bows down to a piece of stone or plaster or wood or whatever and """prays"""..that is worship plain and clear according to any dictionary or encyclopedia in the world and oh yeah.... including the Bible
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
Originally posted by galveston75That's the answer I expected you to give becuase these verses are pointed directly to false religions that are popular and have a huge affect on the world and would have a large amount of followers.
That's the answer I expected you to give becuase these verses are pointed directly to false religions that are popular and have a huge affect on the world and would have a large amount of followers. And they would claim all the wonderful things they've done in the name of the Lord. This scripture is in the Bible for a reason and does apply to something t ...[text shortened]... ng to any dictionary or encyclopedia in the world and oh yeah.... including the Bible
Did you actually read these passages? There is no mention of false religions (although, if there were, the Jehovah's Witness would be the prime example.)
But when a person bows down to a piece of stone or plaster or wood or whatever and """prays"""..that is worship plain and clear according to any dictionary or encyclopedia in the world and oh yeah.... including the Bible
No; it is not clear at all. Bowing can be an act of worship, if the person believes that the object is somehow divine. However, if the intention is only to pay homage to the person represented, it cannot be construed as an act of worship. That would just be culturally insensitive.
Originally posted by PinkFloydYou mean John right?? As He was (Experts think) the one who is said to have had the vision that is revealed in the book of revelation.
Soooo, which (if any) denomination out there knows what the seven thunders told Paul in the Revelation, the lasty book of the Christian Bible? A show of hands....anyone?
Manny
Physical aids to prayer are common in Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Roman Catholicism, and Eastern Orthodoxy. Hence, many millions of people in almost all countries believe that such items help them to approach God, win his favor, or obtain blessings. What does the Bible teach?
THE use of objects as aids to prayer goes back thousands of years. For example, at the site of ancient Nineveh, archaeologists unearthed “two winged females standing before the sacred tree in the attitude of prayer; they . . . hold in the left [hand] a garland or rosary.”—The Catholic Encyclopedia.
What function do rosaries serve? The same encyclopedia answers: “Whenever any prayer has to be repeated a large number of times recourse is likely to be had to some mechanical apparatus less troublesome than counting upon the fingers.”
Prayer wheels take the repetition of prayer a step further. Each turn of the wheel, whether by hand, wind, water, or electricity, is seen as the equivalent of offering a prayer. Prayer wheels are often used in conjunction with mantras—mystical formulas or verses. Consider how God feels about such things.
“Do Not Say the Same Things Over and Over Again”
Jesus Christ, who is recognized even by millions of non-Christians as a prophet of God, explained the Creator’s view of repetitive prayer, saying: “When praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.”*—Matthew 6:7.
Hence, if God disapproves our saying “the same things over and over again,” would not objects that are used as an aid to such constantly repeated prayers also be unacceptable? Accordingly, the Bible does not contain a single reference to a faithful servant of the true God ever using rosaries, prayer wheels, or other such objects in worship. The reasons become even clearer when we understand the true nature and purpose of prayer.
Prayer That Pleases God
In Jesus’ model prayer, he specifically referred to God as “Our Father.” Yes, our Creator is not some aloof being or mystical force that must be appeased by incantations, rituals, or mantras. Rather, he is a loving Father, and he wants us to recognize him as such and to love him. “I love the Father,” said Jesus. (John 14:31) A prophet in ancient Israel said: “O Jehovah, you are our Father.”—Isaiah 64:8.
How can we draw close to Jehovah as a spiritual Father? (James 4:8) As in any relationship, we draw close to God by two-way communication. God “speaks” to us through the pages of the Bible—his written Word—wherein he reveals his activities, personality, and purpose for us. (2 Timothy 3:16) In turn, we speak to God by means of prayer, or worshipful address. Such prayer should, of course, be sincere and intimate, not formal and ritualistic.
Consider: Within a warm, loving family, how would normal, intelligent children communicate with their parents? Would they utter the same words or phrases repeatedly, perhaps counting the repetitions with some device? Of course not! Rather, they would speak meaningfully and respectfully, from the heart.
Prayer to God should be much the same. Indeed, we can go to God with virtually anything that concerns us. Says Philippians 4:6, 7: “Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving let your petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God . . . will guard your hearts and your mental powers.” Naturally, when we are anxious over something, we may pray about the matter often. But this is not the same as word-for-word repetition.—Matthew 7:7-11.
Originally posted by Conrau KBowing to anything is a form of worship which only goes to God. Call it whatever you want.
[b]That's the answer I expected you to give becuase these verses are pointed directly to false religions that are popular and have a huge affect on the world and would have a large amount of followers.
Did you actually read these passages? There is no mention of false religions (although, if there were, the Jehovah's Witness would be the prime examp ...[text shortened]... it cannot be construed as an act of worship. That would just be culturally insensitive.[/b]
So what's up with the hat your Pope wears? Anything to do with paganism?
- Joined
- 15 Sep 04
- Moves
- 7051
Originally posted by galveston75Bowing to anything is a form of worship which only goes to God. Call it whatever you want.
Bowing to anything is a form of worship which only goes to God. Call it whatever you want.
So what's up with the hat your Pope wears? Anything to do with paganism?
Clearly it is not. Solomon bowed to the queen of Bethsheba. There is no suggestion that this involved any sort of worship.
So what's up with the hat your Pope wears? Anything to do with paganism?
I am not sure what you mean.