Free Will

@rajk999 said
That is not a free gift.

It is a gift, all gifts are not earned, God did not have to save us, but He made a way
for us to be redeemed by Christ. You do believe the book of Romans is from God
correct?

@josephw said
I rest my case.

You don’t have a case.

@kellyjay said
No

You keep lobbing them** up and I’ll keep smashing them back.

**your made up claims.

@Kellyjay said:
Someone who is only partially obedient is disobedient, just as there are no shades or of truth, something is true or not, obedience is or isn't as well.

Lest you forget what we are talking about 🙂

@kellyjay said
It is a gift, all gifts are not earned, God did not have to save us, but He made a way
for us to be redeemed by Christ. You do believe the book of Romans is from God
correct?

I believe the book of Romans is from an epileptic, manic, egomaniacal gadabout who thought he was better than Jesus and the Twelve Apostles combined (despite his telling protestations about being "little" and "the least of these," and who unfortunately still has his admirers).

@kellyjay said
It is a gift, all gifts are not earned, God did not have to save us, but He made a way
for us to be redeemed by Christ. You do believe the book of Romans is from God
correct?

The Cosmos happened. Eventually we happened. Let's not overcomplicate things.

Sure, "some Jews" of Earth wrote some stuff, and "some Christians and Muslims" of Earth got carried away and wrote some derivative stuff.

So what if they did?

Are any human scriptures the truth?

Seems like turning attention away from the Cosmos as it is, in all its variety and grandeur and beauty and horror and creativity.

@kevin-eleven said
I believe the book of Romans is from an epileptic, manic, egomaniacal gadabout who thought he was better than Jesus and the Twelve Apostles combined (despite his telling protestations about being "little" and "the least of these," and who unfortunately still has his admirers).

I'm sure the Pharisees and the Sadducees thought the same about John the Baptist
when Jesus asked them if John's message was from God or man.

@kevin-eleven said
The Cosmos happened. Eventually we happened. Let's not overcomplicate things.

Sure, "some Jews" of Earth wrote some stuff, and "some Christians and Muslims" of Earth got carried away and wrote some derivative stuff.

So what if they did?

Are any human scriptures the truth?

Seems like turning attention away from the Cosmos as it is, in all its variety and grandeur and beauty and horror and creativity.

Let us not skip the cause either, the Cosmos happened how? Did time,
energy, mass, and space happen for no reason creating themselves out of nothing.

What and who wrote stuff long ago isn't important as what they wrote true,
because truth doesn't change with time.

The "so what" if they did write something matters on the consequences of the
truth in what they wrote, the meanings found there.

@divegeester said
You keep lobbing them** up and I’ll keep smashing them back.

**your made up claims.

@Kellyjay said:
Someone who is only partially obedient is disobedient, just as there are no shades or of truth, something is true or not, obedience is or isn't as well.

Lest you forget what we are talking about 🙂

So you think someone who is supposed to do something, and only partly does it
is being obedient to what they were supposed to do, even though they are not
doing it? Do you think someone who tells only part of the truth in all the things that
they are saying is telling the truth?

@kellyjay said
It is a gift, all gifts are not earned, God did not have to save us, but He made a way
for us to be redeemed by Christ. You do believe the book of Romans is from God
correct?

Stop asking stupid questions.

Paul refers to a free gift in Romans 5, and this is the sacrifice of Christ, which justified ALL MEN.

Paul also referred to the gift of God which is eternal life.

They are two different things. One is the death of Christ which removed the curse of the sin of Adam from all men. The second is the gift of eternal life which all men will not receive even though they are justified by the death of Christ

The first is free and requires nothing
The second requires righteousness and good works.

@rajk999 said
Stop asking stupid questions.

Paul refers to a free gift in Romans 5, and this is the sacrifice of Christ, which justified ALL MEN.

Paul also referred to the gift of God which is eternal life.

They are two different things. One is the death of Christ which removed the curse of the sin of Adam from all men. The second is the gift of eternal life whic ...[text shortened]... Christ

The first is free and requires nothing
The second requires righteousness and good works.

Do you earn any gift, if you have to work for it, is it a gift? I agree with the
justification for all men was won by Christ, we now have the right to become
children of God. Not everyone is going to be, Jesus called out more than a few
about not serving God but men, there is more than one scripture where God
sorts out the wheat and tares, the sheep and goats, you think when Jesus said
those things he was lying? Do you think the book of Matthew was from man
and not God so we can discount what Jesus said as it is recorded?

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The love of God has made a way for us to come to Him, we have that right by the
grace of God through Jesus Christ, and only through Jesus Christ. We do good
works because we are saved, not to earn our salvation.

@kellyjay said
Do you earn any gift, if you have to work for it, is it a gift?

The gift of eternal life in the Kingdom of God requires that you do certain things.

The free gift of justification through Christ requires nothing. Paul said it came upon all men. Hence it is free. Just as the condemnation through Adams sin came upon all men the same way the justification by Christ came upon all men.

You figure out the rest, and phrase it as you wish.

One is free and is for all
One is not free and requires that you do certain things.

@rajk999 said
The gift of eternal life in the Kingdom of God requires that you do certain things.

The free gift of justification through Christ requires nothing. Paul said it came upon all men. Hence it is free. Just as the condemnation through Adams sin came upon all men the same way the justification by Christ came upon all men.

You figure out the rest, and phrase it as you wish.

One is free and is for all
One is not free and requires that you do certain things.

Yes, abide in Christ, believe in the One the Father sent, the work was done by Jesus
Christ, I cannot add to that I can only take what God has given as a gift for His own
glory and walk in it.

When Jesus was asked what work we were to do, He said,

John 6:27-29
English Standard Version
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

@kellyjay said
Yes, abide in Christ, believe in the One the Father sent, the work was done by Jesus
Christ, I cannot add to that I can only take what God has given as a gift for His own
glory and walk in it.

When Jesus was asked what work we were to do, He said,

John 6:27-29
English Standard Version
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal ...[text shortened]... s of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Whatever. Stop rambling.

One is free, the other is not.
Justification through Christ is free.
Eternal life is not.

Churches have it wrong.

@rajk999 said
Whatever. Stop rambling.

One is free, the other is not.
Justification through Christ is free.
Eternal life is not.

Churches have it wrong.

The only ones who are justified are redeemed by Christ will receive eternal life. You are suggesting God forgives and still withholds eternal life from those He justified?

@kellyjay said
The only ones who are justified are redeemed by Christ will receive eternal life. You are suggesting God forgives and still withholds eternal life from those He justified?

I am not suggesting... I am saying what the bible says. You are providing your opinion which is fine but it conflicts with the bible.

Here is Paul :
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5:18 KJV)
The point - All people are justified by the death of Christ. It is the free gift of God.

Here Paul is speaking of the fate of those who are justified, forgiven, redeemed, born-again Christian Saints in Christ who have the gift of the Holy Spirit:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)
The point he made here - YES, justified, forgiven and redeemed, Christian Saints who fall away, and revert to a life of sin will not receive eternal life.

Here it is again, Paul addresses Christian Saints in Galatia:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 KJV)
Christians who live a life of sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God

Its all over the bible. Eternal life is not free. It requires work and faith, and a special lifestyle of righteousness.