Faith vs. Hope

Originally posted by josephw
We can do that right here. But first why don't you tell me why you think following Jesus is unintelligent.

Because Jesus died ~2000 years ago and whether one accepts 3 cases:

a) Jesus was resurrected then floated off into the sky towards the magical wonderland of heaven
b) He resides (as a corpse) underneath layers of soil
3) He has been recycled through natural/biological processes

the outcomes for anyone who tries to follow him are still rubbish, since in (a) or (b) you'd suffocate whilst in (c)... don't even want to imagine!

Originally posted by black beetle
I know you are a good Christian, josephw
😵

Thank you friend for the sentiment. I am humbled, as I am certain that you are a good person too.

But your post raises the question: What is a good Christian?

Is a "good Christian" one who obeys the law of God without failing? Or perhaps he is a good Christian because he stands his ground in the face of opposition?Or maybe because he believes what the Bible says is the word of God? Or any number of other questions.


John 1: 44-49
Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.


guile--insidious cunning in attaining a goal; crafty or artful deception; duplicity.

I think a "good Christian" is good if he is guileless.



But all that aside black beetle. What you preach, if I may use the term, is not lost on me. The concepts I discovered in the early 70's, and subsequently rejected in the early 80's. Although you are much better educated and versed in it.

If I'm not rambling all that I may say will be.


To me it all brakes down to this; one can pursue the annihilation of self, or have self annihilated for them.

I choose faith in my maker and not in my self.

One can believe in attaining to the annihilation of self by one's self into the sea of oblivion, or choose to attain to eternal life of self in an unimaginable existence of peace and harmony with God.

I'm already there.

Originally posted by Agerg
Because Jesus died ~2000 years ago and whether one accepts 3 cases:

a) Jesus was resurrected then floated off into the sky towards the magical wonderland of heaven
b) He resides (as a corpse) underneath layers of soil
3) He has been recycled through natural/biological processes

the outcomes for anyone who tries to follow him are still rubbish, since in (a) or (b) you'd suffocate whilst in (c)... don't even want to imagine!

i see, therefore which one of his teachings is no longer relevant?

Originally posted by josephw
Thank you friend for the sentiment. I am humbled, as I am certain that you are a good person too.

But your post raises the question: What is a good Christian?

Is a "good Christian" one who obeys the law of God without failing? Or perhaps he is a good Christian because he stands his ground in the face of opposition?Or maybe because he believes what the ...[text shortened]... self in an unimaginable existence of peace and harmony with God.

I'm already there.

I'm already there????

strange i always thought Christianity was about selflessness, putting others welfare ahead of your own interests, well how wrong could i have been. Thank you for helping me understand its all about self.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i see, therefore which one of his teachings is no longer relevant?

Ah...he meant THAT kind of following Jesus! See I thought he meant "follow" as in go wherever Jesus went, and figured it'd be a bit daft trying to follow him into the sky and such! 😏




Reveal Hidden Content

Originally posted by Agerg
Because Jesus died ~2000 years ago and whether one accepts 3 cases:

a) Jesus was resurrected then floated off into the sky towards the magical wonderland of heaven
b) He resides (as a corpse) underneath layers of soil
3) He has been recycled through natural/biological processes

the outcomes for anyone who tries to follow him are still rubbish, since in (a) or (b) you'd suffocate whilst in (c)... don't even want to imagine!

You cannot prove that Jesus didn't rise, but it has been proven that He did by over 500 eyewitnesses.

So tell me, which is unintelligent? To believe 500 eyewitnesses or to believe in something without any evidence at all?

Originally posted by Agerg
Ah...he meant THAT kind of following Jesus! See I thought he meant "follow" as in go wherever Jesus went, and figured it'd be a bit daft trying to follow him into the sky and such! 😏




[hidden][/sarcasm][/hidden]

Lol, ok, although you should check what some of these born again type christians believe, it may just surprise you 😉

Originally posted by josephw
You cannot prove that Jesus didn't rise, but it has been proven that He did by over 500 eyewitnesses.

So tell me, which is unintelligent? To believe 500 eyewitnesses or to believe in something without any evidence at all?

Let me recast that one (for the sake of accuracy):

So tell me, which is unintelligent? To believe [an assertion from various yet to be determined as veracious sources there were] 500 eyewitnesses [present at some event which defies the laws of physics] or to believe [the counter proposal that no such event occured] [since there is no firmly established evidence for the the former]?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I'm already there????

strange i always thought Christianity was about selflessness, putting others welfare ahead of your own interests, well how wrong could i have been. Thank you for helping me understand its all about self.

You don't know what I meant? I'm surprised at you robbie. I thought you had a better working knowledge of the scriptures than that.

Col. 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

or

Ephesians 2:18 - For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

or even

Hebrews 4:16 - Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace,..

Originally posted by Agerg
Let me recast that one (for the sake of accuracy):

So tell me, which is unintelligent? To believe [an assertion from various yet to be determined as veracious sources there were] 500 eyewitnesses [present at some event which defies the laws of physics] or to believe [the counter proposal that no such event occured] [since we have no valid evidence]?

Oh, I see.

Then when one goes into a court of law where there are two or more eyewitnesses to a crime the defendant is found not guilty on the bases of conjecture?

You know nothing! Your testimony is without substance! Your thoughts are dust in the wind!

Originally posted by josephw
Oh, I see.

Then when one goes into a court of law where there are two or more eyewitnesses to a crime the defendant is found not guilty on the bases of conjecture?

You know nothing! Your testimony is without substance! Your thoughts are dust in the wind!

No, you don't see! 😵

I wager it is very rare that courts of law admit cases of supernatural crimes etc... (which would be minimally required for your analogy to be correct)

I witnessed a man eating his own head yesterday! If I assert there were another 499 eyewitnesses will you believe me?

Originally posted by josephw
Thank you friend for the sentiment. I am humbled, as I am certain that you are a good person too.

But your post raises the question: What is a good Christian?

Is a "good Christian" one who obeys the law of God without failing? Or perhaps he is a good Christian because he stands his ground in the face of opposition?Or maybe because he believes what the ...[text shortened]... self in an unimaginable existence of peace and harmony with God.

I'm already there.

I preach nothing, I merely exposed my view regarding a specific matter. I am neither better nor worse than you.

If you consider heartily Jesus to be your Teacher and your Lord, methinks it is enough to meditate and see on your own how can you contemplate his teaching to the hilt and achieve the highest qualities of his message. This is the meaning I attribute to my notion "good Christian"
😵

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Lol, ok, although you should check what some of these born again type christians believe, it may just surprise you 😉

..."born again type christians..."

And YOU have the audacity to label your so-called brothers in Christ?

And with the unbeliever you do it!

You bring shame upon the name of the Lord.

You should learn to spell Christian.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]..."born again type christians..."

And YOU have the audacity to label your so-called brothers in Christ?

And with the unbeliever you do it!

You bring shame upon the name of the Lord.

You should learn to spell Christian.[/b]

And YOU have the audacity to label your so-called brothers in Christ?

what about sisters? Don't they count? 😕

Originally posted by josephw
You cannot prove that Jesus didn't rise, but it has been proven that He did by over 500 eyewitnesses.

Why does this lie get repeated over and over in these forums. Were you not here last time it was discussed? Or do you have a short memory?