12 Apr '06 21:38>
Originally posted by scottishinnzSo no time , no possibility of cause and effect ,no matter or energy , no gravity , no electromagnitism , no cause . No time because there is no cause and effect , but no cause and effect because there is no time for an effect to occur. Chicken and the egg problem X 1,000,000 or just 'plain silly' ? You need time for an effect (the universe) but you can't have time without cause and effect!
Cause and effect are things that require a time factor. It's plain ridiculous to ask "what created the universe" because time is a property of the universe. Cause and effect don't operate without time, and "before" the universe time didn't exist, hence no cause and effect. I've pointed this out before. So you see, your question is necessarily loaded with assumptions that just don't make sense.
So hocus pocus...universe...and you thought God was supposed to be magical fairytale stuff!!
PS- 'Cause and effect don't operate without time' ...is a circular assumption which you can't prove. One other thing to consider is that cause and effect CAN operate with eternity (ie something outside of time)but since your argument is circular because you discount eternity before you even begin this is an option you won't consider.