Originally posted by dj2becker
Ever heard of penicillin?

Is penicillin holy or is it a natural way to keep evil away (sort of like garlic and vampires)?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Ever heard of penicillin?

Yes, useful bacteria. Nice. I don't see your point.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I disagree with Geisler's silly definition. A wound in an arm is a wound in an arm; it can heal or become gangrenous; either way it's a natural phenomenon. Besides "decay" covers the entropic process already.

His definition is meant to be understood within a Biblical framework, which is what "The Argument from Evil" deals with.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Yes, useful bacteria. Nice. I don't see your point.

Why would you want to call something which can be useful, 'evil'?

Is a wound in an arm useful?

Originally posted by dj2becker
His definition is meant to be understood within a Biblical framework, which is what "The Argument from Evil" deals with.

Clearly my perspective, and this thread's, is not Biblical.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Why would you want to call something which can be useful, 'evil'?

Is a wound in an arm useful?

I wouldn't.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's pointless discussing the E word. Discuss.

I don't suppose one can tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims tomorrow.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I don't suppose one can tell that to the families of the 9/11 victims tomorrow.

If you were talking to such a person would you bring up evil?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
If you were talking to such a person would you bring up evil?

Quite possibly. Depends on the person and circumstances, of course.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
It's pointless discussing the E word. Discuss.

Academic/abstract discussions of evil are, perhaps, not entirely pointless. Evil has been defined as "That which ought not to be" in a moral sense. The dictionary defines evil as "morally reprehensible."

But let us get down to cases, even if only hypothetically. Please forgive me if this sounds offensive, but evil, by definition, is offensive. Please bear with me.

If I presented to you a live baby human that you had never seen before and then chopped it to bits in front of you, would you say that I had done something evil?

Again, this example is perhaps a bit graphic, but I can think of no better way to drive it home.

Originally posted by Ristar
If I presented to you a live baby human that you had never seen before and then chopped it to bits in front of you, would you say that I had done something evil?

I would say you had a serious problem and would consider you a threat. I would feel grief at the child's death. I would probably feel angry towards you. I don't think I would be thinking about abstract concepts at such a time.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I would say you had a serious problem and would consider you a threat. I would feel grief at the child's death. I would probably feel angry towards you. I don't think I would be thinking about abstract concepts at such a time.

Exactly. You may deny the fact of evil, you may deny the absolute responsibility incurred by evil deeds and motives, but you cannot deny the feeling of evil.

This child was not yours, nor was I a threat to the human race as a whole. Yet you did not like what I did.

Why not? Why did you think I had a problem?

If there is no absolute moral law, if we humans, in essence, are "random collocations of atoms," a product of time, plus matter and chance; if the universe shall ultimately cease to exist and there is no meaning to life other than what I give to myself, why would you have a problem with what I did? After all, maybe brutally killing the child gave me pleasure.

"Is there any up or down left?" said Nietzsche in his parable of the Madman. Yet you did not like what I did. What basis have you for such a feeling?

Originally posted by Ristar
"Is there any up or down left?" said Nietzsche in his parable of the Madman. Yet you did not like what I did. What basis have you for such a feeling?

Compassion.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Compassion.

Correct answer. Compassion is a legitimate response to evil committed against another.

But who says? Why do you feel compassion? The child was not yours, all the child was was a mass of matter, a product of time plus matter plus chance.

Please believe me, I'm not trying to be obtuse. First principles are at stake here.

Originally posted by Ristar
Correct answer. Compassion is a legitimate response to evil committed against another.

But who says? Why do you feel compassion? The child was not yours, all the child was was a mass of matter, a product of time plus matter plus chance.

Please believe me, I'm not trying to be obtuse. First principles are at stake here.

Imagining myself in the child's place, or in the child's parent's, I experience a sense of horror. Who can say why? Conditioning? A natural response? I only know for sure what I feel.