19 Mar 12
Originally posted by RJHindsSo you do understand you are not one of the reapers?
I am disappointed, but my fellow Christian brother has made me realize that
being a reaper in Christ's kingdom is not part of my role. I must be content
to being a servant, who helps identify the weeds (tares) growing in the world
to the master.
P.S. Be thankful to Christ that I am not the Grim Reaper. 😏
19 Mar 12
Originally posted by galveston75The spirit angels of Christ are doing the reaping, not me. I know you must be
So see one can always learn. So who is doing this reaping work?
happy that I don't always understand the scriptures. I would not recommend
gloating over it for there is much you do not understand. 😏
19 Mar 12
10 edits
Originally posted by RJHinds
RHP stands for RedHotPawn.com which I identify as the world in my example of
the metaphor of the Parable of the Tares.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Tares
Christ does not mention the church as representing anything in this parable.
But I suppose you could identify the servants as the true church of believers.
The man who sows good = tion of my role in the work of the kingdom. I believe I am in error
and do no reaping at all.
These servants or slaves apparently the ones who work in the masters field and identify that there are weeds (tares) in the man's field. They also have the ability to root up and gather the weeds (tares), but they are told to wait until the harvest.
I believe the servants and slaves are those messengers of Christ that preach the good news of the kingdom to the nations of the world.
In my metaphor RHP.COM is the world.
I believe I am one of those servants and slaves that identify the weeds (tares). I also believe I will be one of the sons of the kingdom.
Even though I would like to think I am one of the reapers, that is an
exaggeration of my role in the work of the kingdom. I believe I am in error and do no reaping at all.
I made typo. I meant the servants do not do any physical binding of false Christians.
I think you have seen the passage a little better. Let me add a comment about Christian servant being "one of the sons of the kingdom".
Particularly in Matthew it is important that the servant of the Lord, the son of the kingdom, serve the Lord according to the Father's will. If the servant does not labor according to the will of the Father, he is said to be of the "workers of lawlessness". The Lord will say this to him after His second coming.
Some "sons of the kingdom" do not go into the kingdom because of not doing the Father's will. Other "sons of the kingdom" are rewarded with participation in the kingdom:
" ... and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom" (13:38)
"The Son of Man wll send His angels and the will collect out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kin gdom of their Father. " (13:41-43)
Notice that Christ said "the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father". Does this mean that all of the sons of the kingdom will be the righteous to enter into the kingdom of their Father ?
In Matthew 8:11 Christ tells us that SOME "sons of the kingdom" will be excluded from the kingdom and instead will be cast into "outer darkness":
"But I say to you that many will come from the east and the west and will recline [at table] with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens, But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness. In that place there will be the weepng and the gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 8:11,12)
In chapter 13 the good seed are the sons of the kingdom. And from the good seed "the righteous will shine forth ... in the kingdom of their Father"
But in chapter 8 Christ says "the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness"
My point here is that like you, I also want to be one of "the sons of the kingdom" to be rewarded with entering in and participating in the kingdom. But I do not want to be one of the "sons of the kingdom" who will only SEE "Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom" but myself be one of the "sons of the kingdom" who is cast out into the outer darkness during that time.
Now I USE to think that Matthew 8:12 could only be talking about the Jews who rejected Christ as the "sons of the kingdom" who will be cast into the outer darkness. Upon closer study I had to enlarge my view.
Some "sons of the kingdom" who will not be "the righteous" will be cast into the outer darkness EVEN if they are servants of Christ.
Let me say that again. In Matthew's Gospel, evidently, "sons of the kingdom" will comprise both servants of Christ who will be rewarded with the kingdom AND some servants of Christ who will instead be cast into the outer darkness.
So what kind of sons of the kingdom does the Christian want to be? The one rewarded with the kingdom is what they should desire rather than be the ones disciplined and cast into the outer darkness.
How do I know that some Christian servants of Christ are "sons of the kingdom" who will be cast into outer darkness ? How do I know that "sons of the kingdom" cast into outer darkness is not restricted to unbelieving Jews ?
I know because of the parables in which some of the servants of Christ were cast into outer darkness:
1.) In the teaching of the talents - "And cast out the useless slave into the outer darkness. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth." (Matt. 25:30)
2.) In the teaching of the wedding feast with its guests - "But when the king came in to look at those reclining [at table] he saw there a man who was not clothed with a wedding garment, And he said to him, Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment ? And he was speechless.
Then the king said to the servants, Bind his feet and hands, and cast him out into the outer darkness. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. For many are called but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:11-14)
In Matthew's Gospel of the kingdom of the heavens, some "sons of the kingdom", even those who are serving Christians will be cast into the outer darkness instead of enjoy the reward of the kingdom.
This "outer darkness" is not eternal punishment. But it is punishment. It is punishment AFTER the second coming of Christ. And it is punishment that some Christian servants of Christ may suffer.
Now you can see that serving Christ in Matthew has to be according to the Father's will. Some of us who serve Christ in a lawless way, not paying attention to the Father's will to live a kingdom life in righteousness, will be excluded from the reward of the kingdom. Some of us will be in a disciplinary place outside of the Lord's glory, in "outer darkness".
It is in this way we can understand Christ's warning to His own disciples -
"Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but He who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.
Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power ?
And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt. 7:21-23)
So in our serving the Lord we must take care that it is not "lawless" and not contrary to the will of the Father. I may prophesy in His name. I may cast out demons in His name. I may do works of power in His name. But He will examine how I LIVED, as to whether it was accoding to the Father's will.
Now we can say we want to be sons of the kingdom who are the righteous (subjectively) in service and in living, to be rewarded with the millennial kingdom.
19 Mar 12
Originally posted by jaywillThanks, jaywill. May the Lord bless you. HalleluYah !!!
[quote] These servants or slaves apparently the ones who work in the masters field and identify that there are weeds (tares) in the man's field. They also have the ability to root up and gather the weeds (tares), but they are told to wait until the harvest.
I believe the servants and slaves are those messengers of Christ that preach the good news of the ...[text shortened]... with the millennial kingdom.
19 Mar 12
10 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Saved, regenerated and have the Holy Spirit? Does anyone have all that?
Saved, regenerated and have the Holy Spirit? Does anyone have all that?
Well you people are far more deluded than I thought.
Christ said the regeneration will take place when he returns.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his on and eternal life is a hope which we have that when Christ returns he will grant us salvation.
Well you people are far more deluded than I thought.
You are clearly and demonstrably wrong.
Listen to Christ when he says, "'Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.' By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified" (John 7:38-39).
Go and read the book of Acts where Jesus says, "“Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit,” (Acts 1:4) and they were. Notice how many times the Holy Spirit filled people and descended upon them in the book of Acts; listen to Peter when he says,"Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38).
Listen to Paul when he says, "God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us" (Romans 5:5), and, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own" (1 Corinthians 6:19).
Given all this, no one in his proper mind could deny that the Holy Spirit is given to Christians. Where do you come up with this stuff, Raj? Do you come up with it yourself, or has someone preached it at you? Either way, it's not right, my friend. I had no idea you were this deeply in the dark; so much so that you call ignorance precisely that which would deliver you from your own!
Not only does NOBODY know who is saved. NOBODY knows if they are saved.
Salvation and eternal life is a hope which we have that when Christ returns he will grant us salvation.
No doubt it's true that salvation is our hope. But it doesn't therefore follow that there is no assurance this side of heaven. Consider, Raj, the very definition of faith: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Faith by its very nature implies assurance! Faith is assurance! Will you (can you) understand?
19 Mar 12
Originally posted by epiphinehasSatan wants to take our assurance away from us by sowing doubt. He did
[b]Saved, regenerated and have the Holy Spirit? Does anyone have all that?
Well you people are far more deluded than I thought.
You are clearly and demonstrably wrong.
Listen to Christ when he says, "'Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.' By this he meant the Spirit, whom thos ...[text shortened]... th by its very nature implies assurance! Faith is assurance! Do you understand?[/b]
this with Eve in the Garden of Eden and it led to disobedience. Our faith in
Christ must endure to the end to totally realize our salvation. FMF claim he
no longer see Christ as the way, the truth, and the life and has discarded Him
in favor of a new path. Do you have any words that might help him see the
LIGHT?
19 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
A spirit is literally like the air or wind. YES that is literal.
Put this statement by Christ ..
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for [b]a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
with this one ..
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound ther ose found worthy of salvation will be changed into spirit beings, when Christ returns. Not now.[/b]
Claiming that Christ is literally saying that you cannot be born of the spirit until your flesh disappears does so little justice to scripture that I don't hesitate to call it sad and pathetic, without any intent to insult you in any way. It just is. I'm sorry that you must be burdened with this heinous sort of exegetical error, Raj.
In response, there are countless scripture quotes I could cite to prove how wrong these beliefs of yours are, but at this point I seriously doubt that it will do you any good. Instead, let me just quote from 1 Corinthians 2, and let Paul talk about what the true experience of a believer born of the Spirit looks like (that which Christ alludes to above)....
"But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us.
When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For,
“Who can know the LORD’s thoughts?
Who knows enough to teach him?”
But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
19 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by epiphinehasJohn 7 : 38-39 - Living Water - My interpretation of that is that it applies to the day when the faithful will be given eternal life. That day has not yet come. Christ used the same living water expression when talking to the Samaritan woman..
[b]Saved, regenerated and have the Holy Spirit? Does anyone have all that?
Well you people are far more deluded than I thought.
You are clearly and demonstrably wrong.
Listen to Christ when he says, "'Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.' By this he meant the Spirit, whom thos plies assurance[/i]! Faith is assurance! Will you (can you) understand?[/b]
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
The receiving of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost is a one time event - specific to certain people at a certain time. Nothing in that tells you that you have the holy spirit now. How can you translate that into all Christians receiving the Holy Spirit thereafter?
Romans 5:5 .. Gods love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit? Nothing there says you have the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a vehicle through which the faithful receives love, guidance and inspirition from God. I agree with that. I have not come across anyone who actually does miracles or speak in tongues, or heal the sick or raise the dead. Have you?
Christians delude themselves into thinking that they have the power of the Holy SPirit but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
WHERE IS THE PROOF ? The only thing that this doctrine has caused is for Christianity to fall into disrepute. Dozens of fakes and scam artists have been caught fooling thousands of gullible Christians into thinking that they can heal people, raise the dead, perform miracles. make the lame walk, cast out devils etc etc. But it is all nonsense. Do you have hard evidence Epi ? Please provide some. Someone with the Holy Spirit has special gifts -- healing, prophecy, they move like the wind -- please provide some evidence.
The living water will be dispensed into the 'sheep' on the day of judgment and they will then be changed into spirit beings - born of the Spirit. Then they will have eternal life.
Right now in this time we are blessed with assistance from the Holy Spirit in the form of guidance, inspiration and hope - and that strengthens our faith, that if we continue in Gods word then we will be rewarded - that I know. WE HAVE THAT ASSURANCE. GOD WILL NOT FAIL US. We believe that Christ will reward us. But NOBODY has eternal life NOW [like Jaywill claims]. NOBODY has been regenerated yet. This event will take place at some future date.
I will concede that God will have blessed a chosen few faithful with powers beyond that of a normal human. They can heal the sick, even raise the dead, prophesy and see things which the rest of us cannot. I have not come across any such person personally but Im sure they are there. But to make the claim that all born-again Christians or those who proclaim they believe in Christ, receive the Holy Spirit is utter nonsense.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou still don't get what jaywill said - (what I totally agree with, btw).
My fellow Christian brother has made me realize that
being a reaper in Christ's kingdom is not part of my role. I must be content
to being a servant, who helps identify the weeds (tares) growing in the world
to the master.
The whole point of the parable was that we can not and should not try to identify the tares here and now!!
So it cannot possibly be a God-given role to you to help him point out the tares
It can, however, very logically be your self-appointed role, which would be consistent with your incredible arrogance and pride.
19 Mar 12
Originally posted by RJHindsLike the trinity? Lol.
The spirit angels of Christ are doing the reaping, not me. I know you must be
happy that I don't always understand the scriptures. I would not recommend
gloating over it for there is much you do not understand. 😏
The other easy ones I can think of off the top of my head that I can promise you you don't have it right on are who the Little flock is?
Who are the Great Crowd?
Who are the Annointed?
Who are the ones in the parables Jesus spoke of about?
Who will never die?
Who will go to heaven?
Who Jesus really is?
Who Jehovah really is?
What is the Holy Spirit?
Just a drop in the bucket, so yes you have a lot to correct. Now whether you make that effort to humble yourself and let yourself be taught by God has yet to be seen.
But the fact that you just did learn what is a very basic bible fact, I hope that gives you a chance to learn more.
20 Mar 12
Originally posted by CalJustThe master did not tell his servants not to identify the tares. He told them not
You still don't get what jaywill said - (what I totally agree with, btw).
The whole point of the parable was that we [b] can not and should not try to identify the tares here and now!!
So it cannot possibly be a God-given role to you to help him point out the tares
It can, however, very logically be your self-appointed role, which would be consistent with your incredible arrogance and pride.[/b]
to gather the tares up at that time while the wheat was still growing and
producing grain.
Here is another more modern paraphrased translation from the New International Version.
Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
“‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
(Matthew 13:24-30 NIV)
20 Mar 12
Originally posted by galveston75Maybe you should humble yourself and admit that you get your answers to all
Like the trinity? Lol.
The other easy ones I can think of off the top of my head that I can promise you you don't have it right on are who the Little flock is?
Who are the Great Crowd?
Who are the Annointed?
Who are the ones in the parables Jesus spoke of about?
Who will never die?
Who will go to heaven?
Who Jesus really is?
Who Jeho ...[text shortened]... just did learn what is a very basic bible fact, I hope that gives you a chance to learn more.
those questions from the Watchtower Society. HalleluYah !!! 😏
20 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsYou are beyond belief at times. I've known from the very first time I looked at your comments you were here only to spout off this nonsense that you're so good at.
Maybe you should humble yourself and admit that you get your answers to all
those questions from the Watchtower Society. HalleluYah !!! 😏
But I'll just let you sit on your glorious golden throne and enjoy in your high place in the sight of some unknown god and man. Lol.