Dinosaurs floating on a boat covering a flooded earth.

@kellyjay said
I completely understand, not agreeing with you doesn't mean lack of understanding. I pointed out to you I accept I can be wrong about age, it isn't a big deal for me one way or another. The fact that I believe God is putting things together takes away the need for long periods of time, I'm not concern with things coming together in deep time. I see no need for long periods o ...[text shortened]... be as it is changes, to there had to be a direct first cause, everything here is here for a reason.

The age of the universe has been measured using a variety of independent technological systems, including radioactive dating, Doppler shifts in starlight, and isotropic 3 above zero radiation background. The methods of these studies are totally unrelated. Therefore, an error that might have occurred in one would not appear in the others. Yet the data taken from these diverse studies present a strong and scientifically consistent argument for a very old Earth and an even older universe.

This quote is from Gerald Schroeder's Genesis and the Big Bang. I recommend it if interested.

In my view, The odds of all three being wrong yet pointing to the same ages is about as likely as a cell coming to life on its own.

@whodey said
The age of the universe has been measured using a variety of independent technological systems, including radioactive dating, Doppler shifts in starlight, and isotropic 3 above zero radiation background. The methods of these studies are totally unrelated. Therefore, an error that might have occurred in one would not appear in the others. Yet the data taken from these divers ...[text shortened]... n.

This quote is from Gerald Schroeder's Genesis and the Big Bang. I recommend it if interested.

To date age, shouldn't one know the starting point? If that question is up in the air why would you suggest we know anything? Rates are excellent only if we know the full period of time in play, seeing a rate would be like looking at a car going 70 mph how far back can we say this car was 2 hours ago, 1 hour ago, 20 minutes ago if all we knew was how fast it was going as soon as we saw it.

@kellyjay said
Nothing my bad!

No problem.

So then, what have you got? What's your best evidence or argument to convince me humans coexisted with dinosaurs.

@proper-knob said
No problem.

So then, what have you got? What's your best evidence or argument to convince me humans coexisted with dinosaurs.

The over arching argument for me is I believe we are in a created universe, that is tuned to support life, and the complexity of life. I believe this was done by someone who is that powerful, that the entire universe was not only created by Him, it is held together by Him, and all of the laws within the universe were written by him. I believe He is unlike us are not limited by time and space, and He so when I say He is all knowing there isn't a speck however small He isn't totally aware of from its past, present, and future completely. He has this for each part, and the whole of His creation.

I could go on and on about Him, but when I think the universe is nothing but the work of God, I don't see time as being anything that could hinder Him from doing anything or helping Him either. Therefore billions of years, or thousands of years are just two different periods He could have used, with billions why? If He created it all at once intact and it started playing out as recorded, I don't see anything in the history of this planet that would not be here as it is. From fossils, races, people in their fallen state, the Jewish nation, the nations around it that hate it due to a family fued between brothers families.

So, from the complexity of life to evil and good I see this planet as a place that is well described from a biblical perspective in a very cohesive manner taking in all the various questions in life. Most of the objections I see here and else where are what people think, all centering around things they cannot possibly know! What occurred billions, or millions of years ago, yet they think they have a handle on the distant past.

I don't think what they claim is logical in the slightest when it comes to life springing up with natural selection from a common ancestor, even the ID people who accept billions of years I think are all wrong too, for the same reason. A slow directed process, is no different than a instant one when God is concern.

I fail to see the need, the proof for either period of time is beyond us no matter what we believe occurred. Thousands of years ago, or billions I don't know which is true, and cannot prove either to anyone, so I don't try. I take what people say about the distant past as unproveable as well, they cannot know they can only think they do.

@kellyjay said
The over arching argument for me is I believe we are in a created universe, that is tuned to support life, and the complexity of life. I believe this was done by someone who is that powerful, that the entire universe was not only created by Him, it is held together by Him, and all of the laws within the universe were written by him. I believe He is unlike us are not limited ...[text shortened]... ple say about the distant past as unproveable as well, they cannot know they can only think they do.

No, no Kelly. Due to modern science we can not only think we know,...we can know.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
No, no Kelly. Due to modern science we can not only think we know,...we can know.

You know what?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
No, no Kelly. Due to modern science we can not only think we know,...we can know.

I actually think you spelled that out nicely.
You can think you know, my response is that is all you are doing, “thinking you know”

@KellyJay

I appreciate you taking the time to write out such a lengthy response, but I genuinely don’t see what relevance any of it has to the question I asked, other than your answer to my question can be surmised as - Humans lived with dinosaurs because that’s what I believe the Bible says? That’s what you seem to be implying.

@KellyJay

Also, how far back do we have to go for the past to be classified as ‘distant’. It’s a phrase you often use. When does the ‘past’ become the ‘distant past’.

You’ve also contradicted yourself in the space of a couple of sentences, which is quite extraordinary.

even the ID people who accept billions of years I think are all wrong too

And

Thousands of years ago, or billions I don't know which is true, and cannot prove either to anyone

@proper-knob said
@KellyJay

Also, how far back do we have to go for the past to be classified as ‘distant’. It’s a phrase you often use. When does the ‘past’ become the ‘distant past’.

You’ve also contradicted yourself in the space of a couple of sentences, which is quite extraordinary.

even the ID people who accept billions of years I think are all wrong too

A ...[text shortened]... ands of years ago, or billions I don't know which is true, and cannot prove either to anyone[/quote]

I will respond with more details later! I am not making a truth claim about age of the earth, I cannot tell with certainty how old it is! It could be billions of years old, or thousands, or something else, so I am telling you what I believe.

The ID tend to stay away from age, but many of them accept billions of years. I believe that presents more issues than it solves.

@kellyjay said
To date age, shouldn't one know the starting point? If that question is up in the air why would you suggest we know anything? Rates are excellent only if we know the full period of time in play, seeing a rate would be like looking at a car going 70 mph how far back can we say this car was 2 hours ago, 1 hour ago, 20 minutes ago if all we knew was how fast it was going as soon as we saw it.

If you have no problem with the universe appearing to be 14 billion years old so why are you objecting now?

@sonhouse said
If you have no problem with the universe appearing to be 14 billion years old so why are you objecting now?

I got asked a specific question! I have repeatedly said it is not something I concern myself with to prove a point. When speaking to the beginning of the universe, abiogenesis, for that matter even evolution I think time doesn’t help! Adding more or endless time does not either.

The only thing it does do is allow people to suggest things could occur without having to show it could. Create a just so story and some are happy no matter the proposal.

@kellyjay said I am not making a truth claim about age of the earth, I cannot tell with certainty how old it is!

You are making a truth claim. You told me earlier in the thread that humans living with dinosaurs is a 'truth' for you. Here is the exchange from page 2 -

Me - Dinosaurs living with humans, is that a 'truth'?

You - I take scripture literally you can fill in the blanks with that...........Yes on your question.

This has to have happened with a young earth, unless you are alleging humans have been on this planet for millions of years?

@proper-knob said
You are making a truth claim. You told me earlier in the thread that humans living with dinosaurs is a 'truth' for you. Here is the exchange from page 2 -

Me - Dinosaurs living with humans, is that a 'truth'?

You - I take scripture literally you can fill in the blanks with that...........Yes on your question.

This has to have happened with a young earth, unless you are alleging humans have been on this planet for millions of years?

I don't believe in millions of years, but it isn't something I can prove. So all events had to have happen in thousands of years.

@kellyjay said
I don't believe in millions of years, but it isn't something I can prove. So all events had to have happen in thousands of years.

Can you prove humans lived with dinosaurs?