Decoder Rings ?

Originally posted by divegeester
Do you feel you have some sort of special decoding mechanism for understanding scripture?

I mean other than the spirit of course, before you duck behind that.

twhitehead


One small correction to my post: It is not that a person using this argument claims to be the sole person capable of interpreting the Bible, but typically claims to be the only one in present company so capable - or has some comrades who they agree with. The key to the argument however is that the method of interpretation cannot be double-checked by the listener. The 'correct' interpretation must be taken on authority / faith or whatever.

On another thread someone suggested (I think JosephW) that the key to bible interpretation is to let it interpret itself. No secret decoder ring needed.
The bible says of itself that it is of no private interpretation.
I will add that it also interprets itself right where it is written, or if not then in the context, and again if not then in previous usage.

Here is an example I learned years ago....
Paul speaks of a "thorn" in the flesh here...

1I must go on boasting. Though it is not profitable, I will move on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was taken to the third heaven (whether in the body, I do not know, or whether out of the body, I do not know, God knows). 3And I know such a man (whether in the body, or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows), 4that he was taken into Paradise and heard unspeakable words, which it is not permitted for a person to speak. 5On behalf of such a person I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in my weaknesses. 6For if I want to boast, I would not be senseless, for I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one can credit me with more than what he sees in me, or hears from me, 7especially because of the exceeding greatness of the revelations. Therefore, so I would not be overly exulted, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of the Adversary, to beat up on me, so I would not be overly exulted. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this so that it would depart from me. 9And he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power reaches its fulfillment in weakness.” Therefore, I will most gladly boast all the more in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ will rest on me. 10Therefore, on behalf of Christ, I am content in weaknesses, in being mistreated, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties; for when I am weak, then I am powerful.

Originally posted by sonship
No device do I have.

But it is helpful to know for instance that [b]bronze has a significance often in the OT.
Or we may note that gold carries a significance.
And we may suspect that acacia wood carries a symbolism.

Oil also carries a signigicance.
A stone carries a significance in the Bible.
A ring may well ...[text shortened]... right or helpful. The symbolism that I speak of I can accompany with plain words of teaching.[/b]

Originally posted by divegeester
All this symbolism, and yet you still maintain there is a literal lake of fire where God will literally burn unbelievers for eternity.

This is why we don't see eye to eye. "Did you get that?"

Originally posted by sonship
I don't think I'll argue about this today. This is a kind of subject (lake of fire) that the more it is discussed the more one side assumes or portrays that the other side is eager for the worst things to happen to the lost. If you bring this matter up in every thread I start or nearly after every post I write, subtlety an impression may be had that a b ...[text shortened]... Today, if I write, I am going to stick to many beautiful and positive matters concerning Christ.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
twhitehead


[b]One small correction to my post: It is not that a person using this argument claims to be the sole person capable of interpreting the Bible, but typically claims to be the only one in present company so capable - or has some comrades who they agree with. The key to the argument however is that the method of interpretation cannot be dou ...[text shortened]... is a simple example of bible interpretation without guessing. Just letting it interpret itself.

Many people have described Paul's thorn as being weak eyes, some say a disease or sickness of some kind, some even go as far as saying he had a sexual perversion or weakness.

But if we let the bible speak we can see right in the verses that it was given by Satan or the Adversary, (same being.)

Now if we do a word search and look for the word "thorns" in earlier usage we might find out what a thorn is.

Num 33:55 But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then those you let remain of them will be as pricks in your eyes and as thorns in your sides, and they will harass you in the land in that you dwell.

Josh 23:13 know for a certainty that Yahweh your God will no longer drive these nations from out of your sight; but they will be a snare and a trap to you, a scourge in your sides and thorns in your eyes until you perish from off this good land that Yahweh your God has given you.

So what do thorns look like?... People!

Who was beating up Paul, scourging him, harassing him, stoning him?.... People.
People sent by the Adversary to buffet him, slow him down and stop his message from being preached.

This is a simple example of bible interpretation without guessing. Just letting it interpret itself.

"Concerning this I entreated the Lord three times that IT might depart from me." (2 Cor. 12:8)

"And He [Christ] said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.

Most gladly therefore I will rather boast in my weaknesses that the power of Christ might tabernacle over me.

Therefore I am well pleased in weaknesses, in insults, in necessities, in persecutions and distresses, on behalf of Christ; for when I am weak, then I am powerful." (2 Cor. 12:9,10)

I thought decoder rings were used by atheists and Christian pretenders for bringing Scripture in line with what they believe.

Originally posted by sonship
I don't think I'll argue about this today.

Comment withdrawn.

There is a divine and mystical dimension to human life. Because of this God's revelation has to use metaphors to mean things which are quite real yet mysterious to our natural mind.


Everybody knows that there are many many metaphors in the Bible And it is in this realization that Paul compares the perfect knowledge he will have in the future to the shadowy understanding he has today.

'For now we see by means of a mirror obscurely, but then face to face, now i know in part, but then I shall fully know as also I was fully known." (1 Cor. 13:12)

The book of Daniel shows a river of fire proceeding out from a throne of fire upon which God sits.

The book of Revelation shows a river of water of life proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

One river ends in a repository of judgment.
The other river ends in it being distributed throughout a city of eternal life.

One river of God's holiness in judgment sweeps all the things of rebellion against God into a lake of fire at the end of the Bible. The other river flows out the Holy Spirit of divine life into the city of God.

There is a stream of judgement and there is a stream of God's life dispensing God into man. What a picture these two word pictures reveal. Here are two examples:

" I watched until thrones were set,

And the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was like white snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool;

His throne was flames of fire, A stream of fire issued forth and came out from before Him. Thousands of thousands ministered to Hi, And tehn thousands of ten thousands stood before Him.

The court of judgment sat, And the books were open." (Daniel 7:9,10)

" And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street.

And on this side and on that side of the river was the tree of life, producing twelve fruits, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations." (Rev. 22:1,2)

Originally posted by sonship
Comment withdrawn.

Originally posted by divegeester
That wasn't surprising either. But I'm pleased you withdrew it; if you cannot engage civilly, then best not to.

Originally posted by sonship
What I withdrew was not uncivil. You didn't see it so how do you know what characteristics it had? Are you hoping that it was not civil ?

And I have contributed to the discussion for those interested. And I think it was a further development of the comment that I withdrew.

There is no need for you to jump to the conclusion that a comment with ...[text shortened]... not be the last time I decide not to publish a comment or make another instead, with more time.

Originally posted by divegeester
OK, anytime you wish to address my comment to you which you have twice avoided, please feel free to do so.