14 Dec 13
Originally posted by Rajk999The reconciliation to God: how does it occur? Through our efforts, or through His?
Forget the personal remarks for the time being.
Your quote from [b]The Bible is Romans 5:1-11. Now I remember you yourself saying that we have be careful to interpret the Bible correctly by taking to taking things in their proper context, and reading the whole story etc etc. I remember pointing out to you that you dont always do that especially when r ...[text shortened]... elf. (Philippians 3:17-21 KJV)
[/i]
Romans Chapter 5 is not the whole story. Continue reading.[/b]
14 Dec 13
2 edits
Originally posted by FreakyKBHRead it yourself:
The reconciliation to God: how does it occur? Through our efforts, or through His?
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; (Colossians 1:20-23 KJV)
God reconciles ONLY THE FAITHFUL, to Him through Jesus Christ. Only those who continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..
Those who continue in the faith are reconciled to God. To continue means to live righteously and continue to please God. Those who fall away will not attain to eternal life.
So it requres the efforts of BOTH parties. God calls and reconciles, the faithful has to continue in the faith.
14 Dec 13
Originally posted by Rajk999While we were yet sinners, God reconciled us to Him.
Read it yourself:
[i]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy ...[text shortened]... he efforts of BOTH parties. God calls and reconciles, the faithful has to continue in the faith.
The action which takes place in salvation is the same type of action which took place which led to the exit from the Garden: it was non-meritorious. No work, nothing special. The man and the woman decided to eat the fruit. Sinful man decides to let go of his efforts and cling to God's instead.
I think part of the confusion lies in the fact that there was an act, albeit universal in nature: they ate. But that eating was more symbolic than anything else, much like our eating of communion. Anyone can eat and swallow. In the Garden, it was the very real demonstration that they weren't merely considering the fruit (for which there was no penalty), they physically intended to eat the fruit.
In communion, there is no magic act, but it remains symbolic in nature. We must choose to eat of the bread, drink of the wine. It is not the physical act which saves us, any more than it was the physical act alone which forced man from the Garden. It was the act couple with the faith.
I know that sounds somewhat contradictory: I'm saying it's the act, it's not the act... which is it!? The act in the Garden was necessary for the man, not for God. Man needed to know that he didn't merely intend to eat, he ate.
The act in salvation is not necessary for salvation--- think of the thief on the cross next to our Lord: he was promised he would be with Christ in Paradise that day, no other acts were possible.
14 Dec 13
Originally posted by FreakyKBHThat makes no sense and much of it is not Biblical. The very first line is not in the Bible.
While we were yet sinners, God reconciled us to Him.
The action which takes place in salvation is the same type of action which took place which led to the exit from the Garden: it was non-meritorious. No work, nothing special. The man and the woman decided to eat the fruit. Sinful man decides to let go of his efforts and cling to God's ...[text shortened]... Lord: he was promised he would be with Christ in Paradise that day, no other acts were possible.
You say While we were yet sinners, God reconciled us to Him.
The Bible says Rom 5:8 ..while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
You are struggling to prove an unBiblical doctrine. So I will leave it at that. No more comments for me in this thread.
15 Dec 13
Originally posted by Rajk999I'm sure it comes too close to your pet doctrines, but fret not: the reconciliation is but a sentence away, and it isn't fundamentally different than what I've offered here.
That makes no sense and much of it is not Biblical. The very first line is not in the Bible.
You say While we were yet sinners, God reconciled us to Him.
The Bible says Rom 5:8 ..while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
You are struggling to prove an unBiblical doctrine. So I will leave it at that. No more comments for me in this thread.
But, if it makes you feel any better, keep working for your salvation. Eventually you will come to see how much freedom you gave up in the quest.
15 Dec 13
Originally posted by Rajk999How about?
That makes no sense and much of it is not Biblical. The very first line is not in the Bible.
You say While we were yet sinners, God reconciled us to Him.
The Bible says Rom 5:8 ..while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
You are struggling to prove an unBiblical doctrine. So I will leave it at that. No more comments for me in this thread.
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(2 Corinthians 5:18-19 NKJV)
15 Dec 13
Originally posted by RJHindsAre you saying that supports Freaky's statement in the opening post?
How about?
[b]Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(2 Corinthians 5:18-19 NKJV)[/b]
15 Dec 13
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou have failed miserably to show that your doctrine comes from the Bible. But what authority do you now dispense advice?
I'm sure it comes too close to your pet doctrines, but fret not: the reconciliation is but a sentence away, and it isn't fundamentally different than what I've offered here.
But, if it makes you feel any better, keep working for your salvation. Eventually you will come to see how much freedom you gave up in the quest.
19 Dec 13
Originally posted by FreakyKBH"While we were yet sinners", I am still a sinner, knowingly and unknowingly, what of you???
While we were yet sinners, God reconciled us to Him.
The action which takes place in salvation is the same type of action which took place which led to the exit from the Garden: it was non-meritorious. No work, nothing special. The man and the woman decided to eat the fruit. Sinful man decides to let go of his efforts and cling to God's ...[text shortened]... Lord: he was promised he would be with Christ in Paradise that day, no other acts were possible.
19 Dec 13
Originally posted by PudgenikI think Paul was using the vernacular of the day, to which the readers could relate. Sinners were everyone outside of the Jewish faith, all unsaved.
"While we were yet sinners", I am still a sinner, knowingly and unknowingly, what of you???
God calls all believers saints, regardless their spiritual status otherwise.