12 Jul 09
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't question whether or not mormons or JW's are sincere. In fact, they are some of the nicest people I have met. People can be sincere and at the same time be sincerely wrong. For me, the issue regarding being saved by works and Christ being God in the flesh are the kickers for me. In effect, these teachings involve our salvation, don't you agree?
i have had Mormons but they are few and far between and they did not discuss Gods Kingdom, but the book of Mormon. they were quite sincere and glad of the conversation i think. i really felt for them in fact, because they had been beaten up in Edinburgh and they were a long way from home, in a hostile environment, preaching to a largely unreceptive ...[text shortened]... d there are many issues which can only be satisfactorily resolved by the exercise of conscience.
I do not take issue with people going from door to door and preaching if they so desire or even feel led to do so, however, I do take issue with people who teach that you MUST do so in order to be saved. My whole point in bringing up the futility of people I knew who went door to door was to make a point. The point was that there are other ways and arguabely more effective ways to reach out to people. For example, is says in James that a pure religion is to visit the widow and orphan. In fact, it does not even say to preach to them to try and convert them does it? The point being is that we are to show love to people in our lives. That is what brings people to Christ, or at least, it has been my experience. I think it beats a stranger showing up at your door with a cheesy religious tract to try and get you to come join their church. For me, the message is not necessarily based in love, rather, it tends to send a message that we wish to indoctrinate you and take your money. We should make it clear to them that we are not after their money, we are just trying to show our love and let the chips fall where they may.
As for me sitting on my blessed assurance, I have participted in witnessing to people in the public arena although I have never tried the door to door approach. So does this make me wrong and other right who go door to door? I will not deny that I could have done more. In fact, we all could have if the truth be known. But that does not mean I don't have salvation and it does not mean it MUST be done to be saved. Just ask the theif on the cross who converted right before he died.
12 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSincere and genune but misguided. The world is full of them.
yes, but they said that they had received a mandate from Joseph smith, something to do with the tannins in red wine, it was a little while ago. i tried to find a scripture that I had in my mind, 'the Kingdom of God does not mean eating or drinking' ,...but i could not find it 🙁 , i think its in Romans somewhere, they were very sincere and genuine i felt.
If people used their brains a little before they accept what they are told, they wont be misguided. Anway there is one born every minute.
Here is the verse.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
12 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999yes that is the one! what do you think of whodeys points?
Sincere and genune but misguided. The world is full of them.
If people used their brains a little before they accept what they are told, they wont be misguided. Anway there is one born every minute.
Here is the verse.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
12 Jul 09
Originally posted by whodeyif you do not mind my friend, i really need to retire, its 2:00 am and my mind is at meltdown stage, we can discuss these things tomorrow, for there are some fine points that you make, regards to all, sorry if i was offensive, i don't mean to be but i have a fiery Irish temperament inherited from my mom - kind regards robbie.
I don't question whether or not mormons or JW's are sincere. In fact, they are some of the nicest people I have met. People can be sincere and at the same time be sincerely wrong. For me, the issue regarding being saved by works and Christ being God in the flesh are the kickers for me. In effect, these teachings involve our salvation, don't you agree?
...[text shortened]... ST be done to be saved. Just ask the theif on the cross who converted right before he died.
12 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI basically agree with Whodey. There are many ways to preach. Door to door is just one.
yes that is the one! what do you think of whodeys points?
People sometimes take minor statements in the bible too literally, without trying to understand the underlying principle. In fact not everybody needs to go door to door to preach. The idea is for everyone in a congregation to assist in some way. Some will lead, others might clean the church, some will preach. There is no hard and fast rule.
Here are some relevant words of advice from Paul.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.
12 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe JWs go from house to house asking for donations. That WatchTower magazine comes with a price. .. money.
it simple, you do not go from house to house as Christ and Paul directed....
Is that a directive from Christ and Paul?
Furthermore I have mentioned to many JWs that I read the bible and believe in Christ but I dont share their views. If the same group keeps returning to my house then clearly all they are interested in is a donation. Certainly not what Christ or Paul suggested.
12 Jul 09
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999it is quite obvious you have not got a clue what you are talking about! Jehovahs witnesses do not solicit for funds, literature is paid for through voluntary donations paid for by the witnesses themselves, it is freely offered to those who may benefit from it, what that means in real terms is that it is free for the public. if someone wishes to make a donation they may do so, but it is not solicited for and may even be illegal to do so, depending on your local. now it is quite self evident that you have not got the slightest idea what you are on about! and why should you, for you have never walked the walk yourselves, you nor any of self consumed churches of Christendom. nor are collections made at Kingdom halls, there is no plate passed around, its is a place of worship, not a cave of robbers. can the same be said of the fleeced flocks of Christendom, i don't think so.
The JWs go from house to house asking for donations. That WatchTower magazine comes with a price. .. money.
Is that a directive from Christ and Paul?
Furthermore I have mentioned to many JWs that I read the bible and believe in Christ but I dont share their views. If the same group keeps returning to my house then clearly all they are interested in is a donation. Certainly not what Christ or Paul suggested.
12 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell, well... that tells me something and you too if you are perceptive.
it is quite obvious you have not got a clue what you are talking about! Jehovahs witnesses do not solicit for funds, literature is paid for through voluntary donations paid for by the witnesses themselves, it is freely offered to those who may benefit from it, what that means in real terms is that it is free for the public. if someone wishes to make ...[text shortened]... cave of robbers. can the same be said of the fleeced flocks of Christendom, i don't think so.
The JW members who ask for donations, AND THEY DO, are stealing the money. They are not going to give that to the church. Open your eyes Robbie ... and shut your mouth.
12 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999oh was poor little ol Rajs assertion a complete unadulterated lie, yes it was! books, magazines, bibles, tracts are offered freely to the public, if they enquire about the cost, they may make a donation if they like, if they do not then they can receive the literature freely. What is it about a free home Bible study you do not understand? how much were you fleeced when you went to church today? what is it about free, no collections that you do not understand?
Well, well... that tells me something and you too if you are perceptive.
The JW members who ask for donations, AND THEY DO, are stealing the money. They are not going to give that to the church. Open your eyes Robbie ... and shut your mouth.
in the U.K it is law that every charitable organisation must publish, publicly their accounts, when you compare the accounts of the congregations of Jehovahs witnesses to those of the churches of Christendom, we are insignificant in comparison to the amount of capital and assets that we possess, Why? for we spend the money on literature and bibles, to try to help people gain an understanding, while the rest of Christendom, preaches on their fat butts in luxury!
next time you make a false assertion my friend, better be sure that you know what you are foaming about otherwise you toast!
12 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFirst MOST churches that I know of don't STEAL money they ask for donations like you said.
oh was poor little ol Rajs assertion a complete unadulterated lie, yes it was! books, magazines, bibles, tracts are offered freely to the public, if they enquire about the cost, they may make a donation if they like, if they do not then they can receive the literature freely. What is it about a free home Bible study you do not understand? how much w ...[text shortened]... ssertion my friend, better be sure that you know what you are foaming about otherwise you toast!
Are you in favor or against Christianity?
12 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe JWs I have come across often insist on an donation. In fact I have given back the AWAKE magazine becuase I decided not to give a donation. I was not told that I could keep the magazine.
... if they enquire about the cost, they may make a donation if they like,
Often in my neighbourhood a guy walks around saying :
"Repent and be baptised. The kingdom of heaven is a hand. Mend your wicked ways for judgement is coming. God did not spare the angels who sinned but cast them down to hell .... " etc etc
Now that guy is following the teachings of Christ. He is not trying to indoctrinate anyone with any ridiculous doctrines, he is not asking for money or donations.
13 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by daniel58nope, i am against soliciting for funds in any manner. when i was in Pakistan, and accompanied the witnesses on their work of going house to house, it was very strange, for people assumed that like the churches of Christendom they expected to receive a donation after the visit. the witnesses used to tell them, you received freely therefore give freely and would not accept the donation, for the people were particularly poor and could ill afford it. Paul states in his letters that we are not 'pedlars', of the word of God.
First MOST churches that I know of don't STEAL money they ask for donations like you said.
Are you in favor or against Christianity?
13 Jul 09
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999that guy is not following the teachings of the Christ, and i will tell you why! Let us take a look at the verse that you do not like to think about, of which your conscience somehow manages to excuse you with feeble excuses of, 'oh yes there are different types of preaching nonsense!
The JWs I have come across often insist on an donation. In fact I have given back the AWAKE magazine becuase I decided not to give a donation. I was not told that I could keep the magazine.
Often in my neighbourhood a guy walks around saying :
"Repent and be baptised. The kingdom of heaven is a hand. Mend your wicked ways for judgement is coming. God to indoctrinate anyone with any ridiculous doctrines, he is not asking for money or donations.
'Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.' Matthew 28:19,20
you will notice of course the imperative command GO! yes that is correct, it does not state, sit on your butt, but it states GO! now you will also notice the emphasis is on teaching! not simply preaching which is something entirely different, for teaching one needs to spend time with an individual, to ascertain their individual needs, to take into consideration their personal experiences, their background, their level of understanding and knowledge, their capacity for assimilation of information etc etc etc, can it be said that your preacher is doing that , no I do not think so. he is simply preaching, and in my opinion turning people away from God by his very crude and judgemental message.
JWs on the other hand are willing to give of their own time freely, on a voluntary and unpaid basis, often at great expense to themselves, to help millions of persons worldwide to learn biblical truths, something which you, nor any other members of Christendom are willing to do, that is why you are so reprehensible, for you have hidden the talent, people are spiritually starving and like the Pharisees of old, you are unwilling to lift even a finger to help them.
13 Jul 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYep .. preaching false doctrines, making false prophecies and publishing them all over the world, is expensive business. Then boasting about what you do ... not too sure that will go down well with Christ .. or is it Michael the Archangel.
..JWs on the other hand are willing to give of their own time freely, on a voluntary and unpaid basis, often at great expense to themselves, ...