Confidence

Originally posted by 667joe
Christians think Jews and Muslims are wrong. Muslims think Christians and Jews are wrong. Jews think Christians and Muslims are wrong. They are all correct!

But some are more wrong than others. 😉

Originally posted by Conrau K
The point I am making here is that while there are significant disagreements between religious groups, there are also points of agreement. I wonder if anyone here has actually attended an inter-faith conference? In Melbourne last year we had the World Religions Conference. It involved hundreds of representatives from all religions over the world. There was no squabbling about doctrine or declaration of fatwas.

Are you serious? Do you think anyone who would issue a fatwa would bother to attend an inter-faith conference? You set up a conference specifically designed to attract your religious demographic and then you pat yourself on the back for having attracted them. I think they call that 'preaching to the choir.'

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Yes.... they are all correct, because they are all substitute religions fabricated by fallible man, to satisfy the materialistic propensities of its followers.

But there is only one true original religion for mankind, and its the religion that is eternal and ever existing....Vedanta Sutra.

Vedanta Sutra is not a substitute religion, but is the only ...[text shortened]... e other religions are for the low class meat eaters, and do not have higher spiritual knowledge.

"All the other religions are for the low class meat eaters,.." Like me.

"...and do not have higher spiritual knowledge." Like you.


"Where's the beef"?

Originally posted by rwingett
Does salvation come through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, or does it not? If so, then Jews and Muslims, despite any number of points of agreement, are ultimately wrong.

"Does salvation come through faith in the death and resurrection of Christ, or does it not?"

Well, kinda. But your on the right track.


"If so, then Jews and Muslims, despite any number of points of agreement, are ultimately wrong."

I knew you understood only too well. You can't fool me rwingett. You're a believer.

Originally posted by rwingett
Are you serious? Do you think anyone who would issue a fatwa would bother to attend an inter-faith conference? You set up a conference specifically designed to attract your religious demographic and then you pat yourself on the back for having attracted them. I think they call that 'preaching to the choir.'

Are you serious? Do you think anyone who would issue a fatwa would bother to attend an inter-faith conference? You set up a conference specifically designed to attract your religious demographic and then you pat yourself on the back for having attracted them. I think they call that 'preaching to the choir.'

The event involved hundreds of high profile religious leaders, cardinals, archbishops rabbis and imams. Obviously none of them would be extremists. Nonetheless, it proves that among Christians, Jews and Muslims, there is significant agreement on religious matters. To say that they have no confidence in one another or that each believes the other is wrong fails to acknowledge that there is actually a lot of harmony. I mean, seriously, when the past two popes have prayed in synagogues joined with rabbis, you couldn't really suggest that all Christians think Jews are categorically wrong.

But, hey, you said that what really matters is whether Christians believe that Jews and Muslims can be saved. Clearly quite a number do.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Are you serious? Do you think anyone who would issue a fatwa would bother to attend an inter-faith conference? You set up a conference specifically designed to attract your religious demographic and then you pat yourself on the back for having attracted them. I think they call that 'preaching to the choir.'

The event involved hundreds of high prof ...[text shortened]... is whether Christians believe that Jews and Muslims can be saved. Clearly quite a number do.[/b]

Seems to me that the point is that they each think the other ultimately wrong.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seems to me that the point is that they each think the other ultimately wrong.

How can you possibly infer that?

Originally posted by Conrau K
How can you possibly infer that?

Because, for example, if a Christian thought the Jews were ultimately right, he would become Jewish etc.

Originally posted by Conrau K
How can you possibly infer that?

I was referring to 667joe's OP on the subject. He'd have to be completely ignorant to have meant that there were no "points of agreement" whatsoever. There is no reason to assume he is.

Originally posted by 667joe
Because, for example, if a Christian thought the Jews were ultimately right, he would become Jewish etc.

Well, that just proves that you are remarkably dense. There are a number of reasons for religious division. Many religious organisations are the result of broader cultural stratification such as ethnicity or class. It might simply be a matter of liturgical preference. I don't deny however that there are significant philosophical and theological disagreements between religious communities. What I deny is that the sole reason is about which is 'ultimately right'. Anyway, the Vatican II documents I quoted do not include any language such as 'ultimately right' -- Jews and Muslims, sharing Abraham as patriarch and sharing in the covenant of God's plan of salvation, are also right and have access to salvation. They may not be said to be 'ultimately right' -- in the sense that the Church still claims the unique revelation of Christ -- nonetheless it would be wrong to say that Christians think Jews and Muslims are wrong. That comment lacks nuance.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I was referring to 667joe's OP on the subject. He'd have to be completely ignorant to have meant that there were no "points of agreement" whatsoever. There is no reason to assume he is.

Well, in his post he simply said that Christians believe Jews and Muslims are wrong. The point is however that many Christians would say that Jews and Muslims share many basic beliefs and betrays the fact that many Christians acknowledge that Jews and Muslims can be saved (something he and rwingett did not seem to be aware of).

Originally posted by Conrau K
Well, in his post he simply said that Christians believe Jews and Muslims are wrong. The point is however that many Christians would say that Jews and Muslims share many basic beliefs and betrays the fact that many Christians acknowledge that Jews and Muslims can be saved (something he and rwingett did not seem to be aware of).

yes there are not a few basic beliefs, but there are also many insurmountable and irreconcilable differences. Neither Muslims nor Jews accept the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ, possibly the most fundamental aspect of the Christian faith, for without it, one cannot be declared righteous before God, indeed, how it can be demonstrated from a Christian perspective that even a relationship with God is possible without this understanding, never mind salvation, i cannot at present understand.

Btw been watching a lot of Aussie movies, rabbit proof fence, bush tucker man, the chant of Jimmy Blacksmith etc what a beautiful country you have.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes there are not a few basic beliefs, but there are also many insurmountable and irreconcilable differences. Neither Muslims nor Jews accept the propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ, possibly the most fundamental aspect of the Christian faith, for without it, one cannot be declared righteous before God, indeed, how it can be demonstrated from a C ...[text shortened]... oof fence, bush tucker man, the chant of Jimmy Blacksmith etc what a beautiful country you have.

You can disagree all you want. The point is that Christians clearly do believe that Jews and Muslims share fundamental beliefs and that salvation is possible in both religions.

Originally posted by Conrau K
You can disagree all you want. The point is that Christians clearly do believe that Jews and Muslims share fundamental beliefs and that salvation is possible in both religions.

Please Conrau, that is simply an ad hominem par excellence! I gave reasons why the Christian faith and those others that you mentioned are irreconcilable, reasons Conrau, as far as I am aware, you have provided no evidence to the contrary other than to state that there was some dialogue at an interfaith meeting.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Please Conrau, that is simply an ad hominem par excellence! I gave reasons why the Christian faith and those others that you mentioned are irreconcilable, reasons Conrau, as far as I am aware, you have provided no evidence to the contrary other than to state that there was some dialogue at an interfaith meeting.

Please Conrau, that is simply an ad hominem par excellence!

I can't see how I have used any ad hominem. I have not in any way attacked you personally.

I gave reasons why the Christian faith and those others that you mentioned are irreconcilable, reasons Conrau, as far as I am aware, you have provided no evidence to the contrary other than to state that there was some dialogue at an interfaith meeting.

You don't seem to understand my point. I don't really care what Christians ought to believe. I don't really care if Christians are mistaken about their faith. The point is simply that many Christians do believe that they share fundamental beliefs with Muslims and Jews and that salvation is available to all. As far as evidence goes, I have quoted two important conciliar documents, Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium.

By the way, I didn't actually say that the three Abrahamic faiths were reconcilable. Please, try to follow the thread.