Originally posted by Vladamir no1
Guilt existed before christianity, but guilt is not intrinsic as it is a social fabrication. And freewill was not considered before the advent of christianity, as people belived in fate which is predetermined............

OK, so if it is not intrinsic, how then did it get incorporated into society? Perhaps aliens came down to teach us?

Originally posted by whodey
OK, so if it is not intrinsic, how then did it get incorporated into society? Perhaps aliens came down to teach us?

Morality was created to control us and through morality guilt cam,e about, did you think we we're born with guiilt and morals!!!!

Originally posted by darvlay
Sociopath.

Like I said, Sociopath.

Originally posted by Vladamir no1
Guilt existed before christianity, but guilt is not intrinsic as it is a social fabrication. And freewill was not considered before the advent of christianity, as people belived in fate which is predetermined............

So if guilt was not created by Christianity, then what is your beef with Christianity? It seems to me that Christianity is merely helping people come to terms with their guilt, thus freeing them of the societal chains of guilt.

Originally posted by whodey
So if guilt was not created by Christianity, then what is your beef with Christianity? It seems to me that Christianity is merely helping people come to terms with their guilt, thus freeing them of the societal chains of guilt.

The beef is that free will was invented to perpetuate guilt.

Originally posted by Vladamir no1
Christianity conceptualised Freewill, to bestow humanity with guilt and to prey upon that guilt.
We have no freewill, when people realise this will they finally lay to one side this archaic worldview that we call Christianity?

I know you've mentioned that Hellenists wouldn't have believed in free will. But what of other societies? Surely Christians weren't the first to conceive of free will since, intuitively, it seems compelling. What of Jews?

Originally posted by Conrau K
The beef is that free will was invented to perpetuate guilt.

How can this be proved?

Originally posted by whodey
How can this be proved?

I'm not sure I agree with Vlad. I guess his criticism is that the motive behind Chirstianity's development of the concept of free will, was to create guilt.

I'll leave Vlad up to proving his thesis.

Originally posted by Vladamir no1
Morality was created to control us and through morality guilt cam,e about, did you think we we're born with guiilt and morals!!!!

Prove it.

Originally posted by Halitose
Prove it.

Hypocrite

Originally posted by Conrau K
Hypocrite

He claimed that morality was created. I'm asking for proof. What's hypocritical about that?

Originally posted by Conrau K
I'm not sure I agree with Vlad. I guess his criticism is that the motive behind Chirstianity's development of the concept of free will, was to create guilt.

I'll leave Vlad up to proving his thesis.

Very well. So its believing Vlad verses believing Christ. My money's on Christ.

Originally posted by whodey
Very well. So its believing Vlad verses believing Christ. My money's on Christ.

Not necassarily Christ. My bet is that it will be the Catholic church.

Originally posted by whodey
Indeed. He insinuates that guilt was created by Christianity. In reality, however, we know guilt to be part of the human condition no matter the exposure to religious preferences. He does not consider the possibility that Christianity merely comes to terms with it.

absolutely, but you guys did a fantastic job of sharpening that stick with the concept of "sin".

Originally posted by Vladamir no1
Christianity conceptualised Freewill, to bestow humanity with guilt and to prey upon that guilt.
We have no freewill, when people realise this will they finally lay to one side this archaic worldview that we call Christianity?

ROLF

You don't think you have choices, the ability to do what you will within
the power of your abilities, within the limitations the universe places
upon you?

Instead you believe your choices are forced upon you from an outside
force, or an inside force, maybe the devil made you do it, or God did,
or maybe the little ole lady down the street?
Kelly