Originally posted by robbie carrobieNo it does not make you a non Christian.
i have enough trouble with my own children and my wife has health issues, but no i have never fostered children, does that make me a non Christian?
But before you go throwing moral passages from Isaiah at Christians, maybe you should know something about their personal experiences.
Originally posted by jaywillthe reference was not to you personally Jay will, but to Christendom generally and was intended to highlight why blood guilt might mar a persons approach to God, i did not state that you were blood guilty, did I? Its admirable that you are looking after those kids, it really is.
No it does not make you a non Christian.
But before you go throwing moral passages from Isaiah at Christians, maybe you should know something about their personal experiences.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieisn't that the cost of discipleship?
lavish life style??, the man was a United States appointed judge, he was minted before he ever became a witness. What would you have him do, put on hemp boxer shorts and fibre glass shirts and go around pretending he was poor? There is no evidence other than statements from his enemies that he led a lavish lifestyle. He was expected to preach from ...[text shortened]... in respect to opulence.
Poverty is not a prerequisite for being a Christian, nor austerity!
Originally posted by robbie carrobiethat's what the passage is about yes.
mmm, i am not entirely sure what you mean Deucer, you mean like self sacrificing?
edit: to be fair i have a real problem with the catholic church and its opulence, and many protestant leaders who lust after money as well.
Originally posted by duecerok, deucer, as i value your opinion, what do you think of this verse, for it seems to me, to be saying that well, severe austerity may be a kind of mock humility and futile
that's what the passage is about yes.
edit: to be fair i have a real problem with the catholic church and its opulence, and many protestant leaders who lust after money as well.
(Colossians 2:23) . . .Those very things are, indeed, possessed of an appearance of wisdom in a self-imposed form of worship and [mock] humility, a severe treatment of the body; but they are of no value in combating the satisfying of the flesh. . .
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI understand. I am also a sinner saved by grace. And like Paul I desire to be found not having my own righteousness but that righteousness which of God based on faith.
the reference was not to you personally Jay will, but to Christendom generally and was intended to highlight why blood guilt might mar a persons approach to God, i did not state that you were blood guilty, did I? Its admirable that you are looking after those kids, it really is.
In my opinion, the stance you are taking, complaining about the many sins of Christiandom, is merely an attempt to bribe your conscience.
You reject the ministry of Jesus as Jehovah become our incarnated Lord and Savior. Because you wish to justifiy this rejection of you have to convince yourself that you are not that bad. At least you are not as bad as all those bad religious people in Christianity history who declared wars, etc. etc. etc.
This is an age old manuevor of do something ELSE to appease the convicted conscience. Yes, you do not believe that Jesus is Jehovah come as a Savior. But at least you are not too bad as these other religious people, who were probably trinatarians anyway. You are a pacifist. So instead of believing into Christ you offer to God your pacifism instead.
This, I think, is an attempt to bribe your conscience. What God asks of you you do not do. Instead you quiet your conscience by offering something else.
I don't think doing something else will bring you peace in your conscience. I think receiving Jesus Christ as your God will bring a peace in your conscience which no man will be able ever to take away.
Pointing to the sins of Christiandom will not replace obedience to the Gospel of Jesus as our Lord and our God (John 20:26-31)
Originally posted by jaywillEloquently put.
I understand. I am also a sinner saved by grace. And like Paul I desire to be found not having my own righteousness but that righteousness which of God based on faith.
In my opinion, the stance you are taking, complaining about the many sins of Christiandom, is merely an attempt to bribe your conscience.
You reject the ministry of Jesus as Jehovah ...[text shortened]... ill not replace obedience to the Gospel of Jesus as our Lord and our God [b](John 20:26-31)[/b]
Manny
Originally posted by menace71eloquently put? Jaywill is in a world of his own, why should what we believe doctrinally have anything to do what Christendom has perpetrated against its enemies and its own members, yes that is correct absolutely nothing!
Eloquently put.
Manny
Well I've been on a tangent of sorts attacking the JW's doctrines and History of the founders of the said organization. The crux of things however goes back to Christ. Who was/is He? Honestly RC I was just plain and simply reading the bible tonight. 1Peter and 2Peter. I admit I've strayed from my first love Jesus and the bible. It was refreshing just to read the words. They seemed fresh to me. I do not share what I've done in life for God's sake because I don't want to be boastful is all. Also the things I've done might seem trivial but I remember What Christ said Do these things in secret for your father knows. I will try to refrain from attacking the JW's honestly to what gain is there? None. Honestly I don't attend Church anymore. I used to go all the time. I became disenchanted with the people and yes the hypocrisy. I remember me and another "bloke" started a basketball night with the hopes of having a bible study after words. Some of these young men were literally gangsters. My nephew being one of them. Would never step into a church otherwise. Started out just me and this other guy. After about a month we had like 20 guys. However some in the church were afraid and also wanted to protect the precious building!! I pleaded that this was an opportunity to reach people with the bible and the gospel but it fell on deaf ears. The building was supposedly built to reach people for yes God's kingdom. In those days I was much more idealistic 🙂 I wanted to reach people with God's word. So you have pegged me correct as being nominal but not exactly. I do still Love God and the bible. You are right in one thing if Christians would go out into the world with the zeal of the JW's that would be awesome. Set aside malice and truly have sincere love for our fellow man. (Not all Christians are nominal)I think the true apostasy is a starving for God's word. I was reading something that said the average JW could turn the average Christian into a
doctrinal pretzel 🙂 I hold to the basic tenants of Christianity but I've been wrong in the sense that what was my motivation? To attack just to attack.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71what a beautiful post Manny, the honesty is truly endearing. Yes it is the bible that is alive, and exerts power and is sharper than any two edged sword, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. I really wish you well my friend with your studies and in your endeavours to make Christ and scripture a meaningful part of your life and to your loved ones and to those who may be inclined to listen to you.
Well I've been on a tangent of sorts attacking the JW's doctrines and History of the founders of the said organization. The crux of things however goes back to Christ. Who was/is He? Honestly RC I was just plain and simply reading the bible tonight. 1Peter and 2Peter. I admit I've strayed from my first love Jesus and the bible. It was refreshing just to rea ...[text shortened]... g in the sense that what was my motivation? To attack just to attack.
Manny
🙂
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIf I walk in beggars clothes to impress the world of my "spiritual sanctity" yet I go home every night to my $10 million home with servants etc...Then nothing was really accomplished. Giving away large sums of money in a public manner does no good either; sort of reminds me of "should pray in our closets". I think giving away ones wealth from a desire to please God is a decision born of faith. Giving away ones wealth to impress on other people how "spiritual" you are is a lie.
ok, deucer, as i value your opinion, what do you think of this verse, for it seems to me, to be saying that well, severe austerity may be a kind of mock humility and futile
(Colossians 2:23) . . .Those very things are, indeed, possessed of an appearance of wisdom in a self-imposed form of worship and [mock] humility, a severe treatment of the body; but they are of no value in combating the satisfying of the flesh. . .
There is a certain amount of damned if you do, damned if you don't going on here; though I think the ability to do so (generally) flows from a spiritual awakening.
Originally posted by menace71Oh Manny! What I wouldn't do to have 10 men like you sitting in my pews each week. Shame on your church for not understanding their mission as laid out by Christ himself, Go ye into ALL the world, not just the safe parts, but everywhere!
Well I've been on a tangent of sorts attacking the JW's doctrines and History of the founders of the said organization. The crux of things however goes back to Christ. Who was/is He? Honestly RC I was just plain and simply reading the bible tonight. 1Peter and 2Peter. I admit I've strayed from my first love Jesus and the bible. It was refreshing just to rea ...[text shortened]... g in the sense that what was my motivation? To attack just to attack.
Manny
Originally posted by robbie carrobieMe to Manny!!!!!
what a beautiful post Manny, the honesty is truly endearing. Yes it is the bible that is alive, and exerts power and is sharper than any two edged sword, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. I really wish you well my friend with your studies and in your endeavours to make Christ and scripture a meaningful part of your life and to your loved ones and to those who may be inclined to listen to you.
🙂