Originally posted by checkbaiter
For a Christian, it is not possible...in my opinion....
So, if someone who appears to be a life-long Christian blasphemes towards the end of his life, he
wasn't a Christian?
But first, what does it mean? To you, that is.
I don't think that there's a discrete moment in life during which salvation is 'acquired' such that it
could be lost, so the question doesn't really pertain to me. If you want to talk about my views on
the Holy Spirit, then you can open another thread and I may or may not explore it.
My interest, as per the title of this thread, is to explore whether 'salvation can be lost.'
Nemesio
Originally posted by epiphinehasI would be interested in learning what you have to say concerning the "claims" of dispensationalism. I have spent the last ten years pouring over the scriptures in light of the Word "rightly divided", and have embraced that body of doctrine.
Yes, you are right. I understand what you're saying. I concede.
EDIT: However, I'm still wary of dispensationalism's claims.
If I am in error I would like to know why or how.
Is there anything in particular that you have a problem with?
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Originally posted by blakbuzzrdI am not sure what it means, I only have speculation. Some believe it is to be born of the "wrong" seed, that is Satan's. Others believe it is to blaspheme God in such a way that the recipient wants eternal separation...I don't claim to believe either one....
Aw, c'mon. Someone jump in there and explain what blasphemy against the HS is.
Originally posted by checkbaiterSo, in the first case, there is nothing the person can do to avoid eternal damnation -- no confessing
I am not sure what it means, I only have speculation. Some believe it is to be born of the "wrong" seed, that is Satan's. Others believe it is to blaspheme God in such a way that the recipient wants eternal separation...I don't claim to believe either one....
in Christ, nothing, because s/he is of the wrong seed. In the second case, a person can be saved
-- confessing Christ and all that -- and then lose it.
Seems a pickle.
Nemesio
Originally posted by blakbuzzrdOk, I'll take a stab at it.
Aw, c'mon. Someone jump in there and explain what blasphemy against the HS is.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is sinning against the Holy Spirit.
I think it is just that simple.
For example. Stoning Steven for what he said to the Sanhedrin.
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Originally posted by NemesioThe way I understand it, it is a choice. A person accepts Satan as lord, etc....I have not seen this in the bible, so like I said, I don't know..
So, in the first case, there is nothing the person can do to avoid eternal damnation -- no confessing
in Christ, nothing, because s/he is of the wrong seed. In the second case, a person can be saved
-- confessing Christ and all that -- and then lose it.
Seems a pickle.
Nemesio
Originally posted by checkbaiterThe problem with that, to my way of thinking, is I don't think Satan is really interested in being any body's Lord. People who claim to worship Satan are really diluted into thinking Satan is even remotely interested in them at all. Satan hates everything and everybody as far as I'm concerned.
The way I understand it, it is a choice. A person accepts Satan as lord, etc....I have not seen this in the bible, so like I said, I don't know..
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Originally posted by josephwI agree, I didn't say I believe it....
The problem with that, to my way of thinking, is I don't think Satan is really interested in being any body's Lord. People who claim to worship Satan are really diluted into thinking Satan is even remotely interested in them at all. Satan hates everything and everybody as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by josephwSo, if someone who threw a stone at Saint Stephen repented and confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Ok, I'll take a stab at it.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is sinning against the Holy Spirit.
I think it is just that simple.
For example. Stoning Steven for what he said to the Sanhedrin.
this individual would not be saved? (to clarify)
Can you think of any modern-day examples?
Nemesio
From what I understand, the one sin which God cannot forgive is the one sin which precludes the perpetrator from ever coming to repentance. Christ has made provision for the forgiveness of the most vile sins imaginable in his death on the cross; provided, of course, the sinner repents. God's mercy and grace cannot break forth into the life of a sinner unless he or she repents. To 'blaspheme the Holy Spirit' means to commit the one sin which by its very nature makes repentance an impossibility.
The most poignant examples were the scribes, who claimed Jesus was possessed by a demon, and through demonic power was casting demons out of people, and all for the purposes of seduction. Believing this made repentance an impossibility since they would never in their lives turn to this 'demon-possessed' man, Jesus, for forgiveness of their sins.
Scholars tend to agree that since Jesus Christ's ascension, 'blaspheming the Holy Spirit' is now no longer possible. But it seems to me (not a scholar), that ignoring the promptings of the Holy Spirit throughout a lifetime and still remaining aloof from God even to the grave is tantamount to the same thing. Even today people can make decisions and say things which close them off forever from turning to Jesus for forgiveness. Christ, of course, is always waiting with open arms for even the most mind-bogglingly heinous sinners to repent and turn to him, but sadly in many cases that invisible line has already been crossed, where repentance will never again be possible despite God's perpetually open arms.
Since this is a sin which is only 'unforgivable' because it makes repentance impossible, it is not a sin which can be committed by a born-again believer who has already been recreated in Christ. Contrary to my naive reading of the various scriptures involved, when a person is created anew in Christ he or she cannot be 'uncreated'.