Spirituality
21 May 07
23 May 07
Originally posted by Nemesio"What sorrow for those who say
Your god is an idol, a product of your fearful imagination. Your god knows nothing of love, compassion, sympathy, devotion, or truth. He knows only fear, fear of everlasting torment. You call this holy; I call it satanic.
that evil is good and good is evil,
that dark is light and light is dark,
that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.
What sorrow for those who are wise in their own eyes
and think themselves so clever" (Isaiah 5:20-21).
24 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasA natural reply! It is not surprising at all that people advocating your religion would testify that
"What sorrow for those who say
that evil is good and good is evil,
that dark is light and light is dark,
that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.
What sorrow for those who are wise in their own eyes
and think themselves so clever" (Isaiah 5:20-21).
other people would call 'evil "good" and good "evil."' That, too, is not novel at all. It's in all modern
religions and most of the ancient ones that I can think of. And, as above, if those following another
religion quoted their equivalent, you would poo-poo them as well.
The ironic thing, though, is you simultaneously assert that murder is wrong and that God can murder
righteously. Indeed, it is a sorrow for those who worship that which is evil, and the idol god that
you worship is just that. You rejoice when the brains of children are dashed upon the rocks, because
if 'god' authorizes it, it must be good and holy. You rejoice at the mauling of children by bears. You
rejoice at the slaughter of the innocent children of the Medianites.
This is your faith, your beliefs, your creed.
Who, then, is saying that 'dark is light and light is dark?' That you, in any intellectual honesty, can say
that your ravenous 'god' is worthy of worship -- that atheists like SwissGambit, rwingett, or TheSkipper
ought to follow your fine example -- is absolutely at the height of absurdity.
It falls just shy of worshipping Baalim, flaying one's self for the amusement of a bloodthirsty lunatic.
I don't know if they pity you, but I do. A person who lives in such profound fear such that they would
worship a 'god' who revels in the slaughter of children is worthy of extraordinary compassion.
Nemesio
24 May 07
Originally posted by whodeyLooks like you just don't like the possible implications. As my post was perfectly clear English I can only assume that your comment refers to the content being incorrect in your opinion. The fact that you choose to simply say 'nonsense' instead of debate the issue implies you do not have any points in your favor.
Nonsense.
24 May 07
2 edits
Originally posted by NemesioI've never said it was 'good' that all those people were slaughtered, neither have I ever indicated that I 'rejoice' at the slaughter of innocents. Far from it. What those events do engender in me is a profound sense of respect/fear/awe of the holiness of God, coupled with a certain solemnity considering the horrible sinfulness which we are all prone to, and the ensuing consequences. Sin is ugly and the consequences are ugly; it's a messy affair from beginning to end, there's no doubting that. And there's no way of sugar-coating things either: where God's holiness and the sinfulness of men collide it's never a pretty sight. The bible is an extremely bloody book. Where we differ is, I do not count that fact against the bible being true, whereas you do.
A natural reply! It is not surprising at all that people advocating your religion would testify that
other people would call 'evil "good" and good "evil."' That, too, is not novel at all. It's in all modern
religions and most of the ancient ones that I can think of. And, as above, if those following another
religion quoted their equivalent, you would in the slaughter of children is worthy of extraordinary compassion.
Nemesio
24 May 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperI must admit I struggle with a literal interpretation of Genesis, rather I would try to understand it with regard to what 'we' know about what was written or spoken about at a similar age; Perhaps that rules me out of commenting on whether genocide is acceptable if committed by God. What I see on this forum is a lot of individuals prepared to say what God would like or how God would think.... The arrogance astounds me - and the result of such strong self-belief has in my opinion been what has led mankind into genocide acts....
Okay, but if Genisis 19 is to be believed then there are no 'people' doing the killing in question, just God.
25 May 07
Originally posted by epiphinehasSo, God can do something that isn't good?
I've never said it was 'good' that all those people were slaughtered, neither have I ever indicated that I 'rejoice' at the slaughter of innocents. Far from it.
If not -- that God can only do that which is good -- then why wouldn't you rejoice in it?
Nemesio
25 May 07
3 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou said that fear of my parents must be a sign of their imperfection. This is such utter nonsence I did not even bother posting a rebuttal. Fear of my parents may include not wanting to get my back end whacked for things I know I should not be doing. How is their imperfection then factored in such a scenerio?
Looks like you just don't like the possible implications. As my post was perfectly clear English I can only assume that your comment refers to the content being incorrect in your opinion. The fact that you choose to simply say 'nonsense' instead of debate the issue implies you do not have any points in your favor.
25 May 07
Originally posted by whodeyIf they were perfect (your parents...and parents in general) they would not need to rely on your fear of them in order to teach you right from wrong. Nor would they need to use physical violence to encourage you to behave in a certain way.
You said that fear of my parents must be a sign of their imperfection. This is such utter nonsence I did not even bother posting a rebuttal. Fear of my parents may include not wanting to get my back end whacked for things I know I should not be doing. How is their imperfection then factored in such a scenerio?
This is pretty basic and obvious, isn't it?
25 May 07
Originally posted by TheSkipperNo. One spanks a child why? Is it not because attempting to reason with them on your own level is futile. They do not have the capcity to reason as you and I as to why playing in the street is "bad". Therefore, one employs a tactic that they understand and that is not obeying equals pain. As the child ages, however, and becomes more developed then the use of such tactics deminish over time. It has nothing to do with the "imperfection" of the parents necessarily.
If they were perfect (your parents...and parents in general) they would not need to rely on your fear of them in order to teach you right from wrong. Nor would they need to use physical violence to encourage you to behave in a certain way.
This is pretty basic and obvious, isn't it?
26 May 07
Originally posted by SwissGambitWhen the people who are being killed are black and have no natural resources then genocide is fine even when it seemingly contravenes International Law. If you think I am lying I refer you to the genocide of Rwanda and the West's response to what was a moral and legal obligation.
The biblical literalist is stuck defending the rash actions of the OT God, who on several occasions ordered his chosen people to commit genocide, and on other occasions directly carried it out by his own hand. This begs the question: Is it consistent for a "just, loving and merciful" God to order thousands of people, some of whom are innocent children, t ...[text shortened]... fe, especially if the population of other civilizations is far greater than that of the Xites.
26 May 07
Originally posted by demonseedHaving natural resources doesn't help much if it's oil.
When the people who are being killed are black and have no natural resources then genocide is fine even when it seemingly contravenes International Law. If you think I am lying I refer you to the genocide of Rwanda and the West's response to what was a moral and legal obligation.
26 May 07
"Can genocide ever be morally right?"
Of course ! They are doing it right now in 2007 to all those unborns who are unwanted for some reason, including to children with Down syndrom and other "limitations". According to our present ideology these lives are "Lebensunwertes Leben", or in Bbarrian English "Lives not worth living".
26 May 07
Originally posted by ivanhoeYep, the thread's dead. People are bringing their personal pissing contests in...
"Can genocide ever be morally right?"
Of course ! They are doing it right now in 2007 to all those unborns who are unwanted for some reason, including to children with Down syndrom and other "limitations". According to our present ideology these lives are "Lebensunwertes Leben", or in Bbarrian English "Lives not worth living".