Calling out Blakbuzzrd

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
I had no doubt.

Why?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Why?
Kelly

KellyJay, I don't think this conversation can go much further. We're now at the point where all that is left is to talk about whether or not I was in fact a real Christian. It may be impossible to discuss, given our different perspectives.

The best that can be said here is that I certainly believed myself to be Christian. To me, it was not rote, ritual, mere religion, legalism, or a Sunday-only kind of faith. It informed every aspect of my identity.

You certainly are welcome to be suspicious of that, as indeed I imagine you are and must be. Were I in your shoes, I would be.

But since I don't hold to that faith anymore, the question of whether I was really a Christian holds no meaning for me, and I can't discuss it in anything other than retrospective terms.

The harshest way to put it is to say that I now believe that what I once held as absolute, transcendent truth is actually a combination of fiction, faith, and tradition. Consequently, I believe the popular distinction between a "real" walk with God and a "fake" or "surface" faith to be essentially illusory, except insofar as the person is more or less serious about his or her belief.

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
Sorry for the delay, KellyJay. I owe you this from some time back, so here's the short version:

Obviously, there's going to be a bit of a disconnect here, because you believe certain things that I don't anymore. That makes talking about it hard, because the terms we would use ourselves don't have much meaning in conversation with each other (e.g., "wal ...[text shortened]... them.

That was my faith.

And now it's gone.

You know, that kinda hurt.

...but the one who wouldn't scruple to punch me square in the jaw for the sake of sanctifying me.
Not in the least am I trying to be cute, but it sounds as though He is now doing the very thing you accuse Him of failing to do in the past: disciplining the one He loves. No one knows better than God what is required in gaining the attention of His children. Moreover, if some random child's obstinance cannot be otherwise swayed, no one knows better than God how to use that random child as an object lesson for other thriving believers.

I have no doubt that you made the most important decision in life, that of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ as the substitute for your sins. I have no doubt that you have faced the same fork in the road that any thinking believer in the past has faced with respect to reconciling all of the issues of faith with a matrix of reality. With your current thinking, you have company: many believers had arrived at that juncture and came to the same conclusion for their various reasons--- some of which coincide with the reasons you have stated, others for reasons dissimilar but results identical.

However, many Christians have confronted the same issues and chose a different path. I think the reason for such a difference in outcomes has more to do with the matrix of reality than the issues of faith.

For what it's worth. All other things aside, I (for one) appreciate your candor in revealing the struggle and the pain.

Ain't life grand?

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
KellyJay, I don't think this conversation can go much further. We're now at the point where all that is left is to talk about whether or not I was in fact a real Christian. It may be impossible to discuss, given our different perspectives.

The best that can be said here is that I certainly believed myself to be Christian. To me, it was not rote, ritua llusory, except insofar as the person is more or less serious about his or her belief.

I've read two of your posts one says you did walk away from Christ,
the other leads me to believe you didn't have a relationship since
now you don't think it was ever real. Hard to argue with that, doesn't
seem like you know what is real.
Kelly

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
[b]I have arrived. I have a thread calling me out by name now!

Now to bidness:

An evangelical xian maintains that if someone actually falls away from the faith, then that person wasn't really of the faith, since Christ promises to protect his own and that no one will take them from his hand (cf. John 10:27-29).

There is a difference between someone taking you from his hand and you willfully walking away is'nt there?

Originally posted by whodey
There is a difference between someone taking you from his hand and you willfully walking away is'nt there?

They walked away from Jesus while He was here as a man and He let
them go.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
They walked away from Jesus while He was here as a man and He let
them go.
Kelly

Indeed. In fact, there is a whole slew of examples of this. Did not Adam and Eve "walk away"? Were they not "true converts"? I believe also in 1 Timothy 1:20 both Hymenaeus and Alexander walked away from the faith for various reasons. Also as I have been harping on on many other threads, we all have free will and for one to be UNABLE to walk away from the faith one would then have no free will. I simply do not believe this to be possible. However, if we CHOOSE to not walk away, who then can pluck us out of the hand of the Almighty? I believe Christ made the statement to not fear those who can kill you, rather, fear those who may be able to take your soul. How then is this possible? I say it is through deception. After all, if God be God then Satan is outgunned, so to speak. Direct confrontation is therefore suicidal. Therefore, the only means of attack is through deception just as it was in the garden.