Originally posted by rwingett
In Genesis 4 we have the story of Cain and Abel. Abel was the keeper of sheep while Cain was a tiller of the ground. It is further recounted how they each brought an offering to the Lord and that He approved of Abel's offering, but not of Cain's. Cain then slew Abel and was subsequently cursed. I will here offer up an interpretation of Genesis 4 as influenc ...[text shortened]... k, but rather has been the very cause of it. And for that, Cain was cursed by the Lord.

Speculative and yet highly interesting take on the whole topic. However, the caveat which prompts one to stop and think again is this:

"Therefore the LORD
God sent him forth from the
garden of Eden, to till the
ground from whence he was
taken."

Although the ground was cursed on account of man's ill-conceived attempt, Adam was given the ground to produce his life sustenance. Intuitively, one could draw the conclusion that first fruits from that ground ought to be first in order of acceptable tender, as it were, in God's economy. Counter-intuitively, God points to a more primitive solution: forgiveness via pure blood, pure life.

That being said, I am thankful for your thoughtfulness in posting this most thought-provoking post. It really attempts to get to the meat of things and demands the one so inclined to engage the idea.

Nicely done, rwingett.

Originally posted by duecer
I provided three websites all of which disagree with wiki, which in academic circles would earn you a big fat zero if used as a refernce.


I win!😏

No, you provided one which disagreed in part, slightly, one unsubstantiated news story and a religious website, which would get you a helluva laugh in academic circles if used as a reference. But hey, if you wanna call it a win, knock yourself out.

Originally posted by rwingett
Simplistic? I'm not sure how you come by that analysis.

Actually I admit its not relevant and humbly apologize.
Like I said, i like your take on biblical things. Cheers.

Originally posted by rwingett
We can take this interpretation and look at it from a Buddhist viewpoint* in which suffering is caused by craving. Civilization, as embodied by Cain and his murder of Abel, has increased our perceived needs exponentially. We work longer hours and subject ourselves to all manner of ills in order to fulfill needs which we simply did not have in our pre-civili ...[text shortened]... m influenced Christianity through Jesus or through some other method is an intriguing topic.

It is generally agreed that nothing is known of Jesus from 0-30.
For me that would be the most interesting part-how he became who he became. The christians say he was born like that, I say he was a "self-made man", who strived for enlightenment just as the bhudda had. I believe it has been erased from the bible,(or never put in there in the first place), to sell the lie of the churches. The lie of death. To submit our spirits to this other-worldly individual known as Jesus, all the while dividing , raping ,corrupting us,etc.

As you may or may not know thats where the stories differ with the bhudda. His whole life and struggles and final discovery of the "middle way" have been documented and accepted into the Hindu canon.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It is generally agreed that nothing is known of Jesus from 0-30.
For me that would be the most interesting part-how he became who he became. The christians say he was born like that, I say he was a "self-made man", who strived for enlightenment just as the bhudda had. I believe it has been erased from the bible,(or never put in there in the first plac ...[text shortened]... inal discovery of the "middle way" have been documented and accepted into the Hindu canon.

Jesus worked with Joseph the first 30 years of his life, the part I put in these " " I don't get what that has to do with the rest of it???

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It is generally agreed that nothing is known of Jesus from 0-30.
For me that would be the most interesting part-how he became who he became. The christians say he was born like that, I say he was a "self-made man", who strived for enlightenment just as the bhudda had. I believe it has been erased from the bible,(or never put in there in the first plac ...[text shortened]... final discovery of the "middle way" have been documented and accepted into the Hindu canon.

The first 30 years of Jesus's life was not really relivent. But I'd say he probably played like most any young kid or young adult, ate and drank as normal and no doubt was a very fine student when it came to spiritual matters. The couple important things were recorded and that's about it. No reason to make any more of it then what there was......

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
No, you provided one which disagreed in part, slightly, one unsubstantiated news story and a religious website, which would get you a helluva laugh in academic circles if used as a reference. But hey, if you wanna call it a win, knock yourself out.

they need not agree with each other, the point was that they all disagreed with the time line in dispute...so yep I win!!!

Originally posted by rwingett
Please take your pointless squabble elsewhere. This thread is reserved for the multitudes of people who are going to start excitedly posting about my Cain and Abel analysis any minute now.

que forms to the left🙄

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Intuitively, one could draw the conclusion that first fruits from that ground ought to be first in order of acceptable tender, as it were, in God's economy. Counter-intuitively, God points to a more primitive solution: forgiveness via pure blood, pure life.

In Byron's blank verse play "Cain", the anti-hero associates his crime with the bloodthirstiness of a God only satisfied by an offering involving slaughter:

"Thy God loves blood!-then look to it:-. Give way, ere he hath more!"

Originally posted by galveston75
The first 30 years of Jesus's life was not really relivent. But I'd say he probably played like most any young kid or young adult, ate and drank as normal and no doubt was a very fine student when it came to spiritual matters. The couple important things were recorded and that's about it. No reason to make any more of it then what there was......

But everywhere JC is held up as the clear and different person. He is refferred to,(and belived by many), to be Gods son. Whole societies are built and torn in His name.
And you dont care what happenend in the MOST of his life?

To me there is a clear cover-up. Why document ones life so intimately from 30 to 33 but nothing else?
Throw in with that a virgin birth and you have created a myth.
We will never be as good as JC. The only way to be saved is to ....what? follow Him .. or His words?
Why could he not have travelled east to be trained in spiritual matters? It makes more sense than that he just magically was born or aquired these powers.
Again, there are practical explanations for all manner of things in the vedas (Hindu bibles).
Scientific explanations. Its not as simple as *poof* and everything just came to be as it is , with no "development" period.
Then on top of that you want to interpret the entirity of the bible literally🙄

Originally posted by daniel58
Jesus worked with Joseph the first 30 years of his life, the part I put in these " " I don't get what that has to do with the rest of it???

Joseph? Really?
In Eastern spiritual traditions that statement would be construed as "Joseph instructed Jesus and helped make Him what he is (supposed to be)."
But this is not the case!! Jesus is in a league of his own clearly.

If only some of you christians would take the time to read any simple version of the bhuddas life, you would immediately see the difference.
Yes, the bible is disinformation at best.

Originally posted by duecer
interesting, but really quite a stretch. If we more closely examine the text, it is apparent that that God's favoring of Abel has less to do with the way one provides a living for self and family, and more to do with how one Thanks the creator for the gift of nature and how it is able to provide.

NIV: In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits ...[text shortened]... sin, allowing it to become his master, and brings his brother into a field to hide his crime.

I bet he questioned God's Word too, maybe tried to make it sound like something
other than what God said. 🙂
Kelly

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Speculative and yet highly interesting take on the whole topic. However, the caveat which prompts one to stop and think again is this:

"Therefore the LORD
God sent him forth from the
garden of Eden, to till the
ground from whence he was
taken."

Although the ground was cursed on account of man's ill-conceived attempt, Adam was given the ground to ...[text shortened]... at of things and demands the one so inclined to engage the idea.

Nicely done, rwingett.

Needing to till the ground was a result of The Fall. It was a punishment. Formerly, the "Earth herself, untroubled and untouched by the hoe, unwounded by any ploughshare, used to give all things of her own accord." I fail to see how anything derived via agriculture would be looked upon favorably.

Originally posted by Teinosuke
In Byron's blank verse play "Cain", the anti-hero associates his crime with the bloodthirstiness of a God only satisfied by an offering involving slaughter:

"Thy God loves blood!-then look to it:-. Give way, ere he hath more!"

Interesting. I'm not familiar with that one. I'll have to look into it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It is generally agreed that nothing is known of Jesus from 0-30.
For me that would be the most interesting part-how he became who he became. The christians say he was born like that, I say he was a "self-made man", who strived for enlightenment just as the bhudda had. I believe it has been erased from the bible,(or never put in there in the first plac ...[text shortened]... final discovery of the "middle way" have been documented and accepted into the Hindu canon.

Perhaps Jesus' 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness represents a longer period of time during which he meditated and found enlightenment.