31 Jan 14
Originally posted by RJHindsRJ there was a reason that i started this text in the first place. Plainly, one man, Martin Luther, disagreed with the scripture in his time. So he argues with the church, well so what about that. But does he have the right to change the bible just because he doesn't agree with it? Changed it by removing books. And yes i know he didn't do the actual removal, but through his influence other men did.
Luther translated the New Testament into German to make it more accessible to the commoners and to erode the influence of priests. He used the recent critical Greek edition of Erasmus, a text which was later called Textus Receptus.
Luther chose to omit the portions of the Old Testament found in the Greek Septuagint, but not in the Hebrew Masoretic texts t ...[text shortened]... all Protestants.
The Reformation-Martin Luther
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFqWnEpZvjs
Later the JW's come along and change it to fit their beliefs as well
And the Methodists too have deleted portions of it.
And if i recall there is a new translation (maybe not so new now) that has omitted some 4000 words.
So the question remains, do we have the right to change and omit parts of the bible to fit our desires and needs?
31 Jan 14
Originally posted by PudgenikAt the time of Martin Luther the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church had become corrupt with false teachers and the power they were given over the people. The Pope and the emperor had become cohorts in the use of power to control the people. Power given to man has a tendency to corrupt his thoughts and actions because the heart of man is evil. The common people were being physically and mentally abused and taken advantage of by the Papacy. The common people were not provided with the education or the words of scripture to see if what they were being taught was correct. Then along came Martin Luther and that was all changed.
RJ there was a reason that i started this text in the first place. Plainly, one man, Martin Luther, disagreed with the scripture in his time. So he argues with the church, well so what about that. But does he have the right to change the bible just because he doesn't agree with it? Changed it by removing books. And yes i know he didn't do the actual removal ...[text shortened]... emains, do we have the right to change and omit parts of the bible to fit our desires and needs?
The Roman Catholic Church has admitted that Martin Luther was partially correct concerning his objections to church teachings and actions. I am in no way trying to say Martin Luther was perfect. However, the books that Martin Luther did not include in his German translation of the scriptures had not been approved as inspired scriptures at that time. It was only after his time that the corrupt Roman Catholic Church declared them inspired scripture.
01 Feb 14
Originally posted by RJHindsI am catholic, but i am not making excuses for the church. I agree that some of the arguments of Luther were valid. But i am not here to debate over the validity of Luther's teachings and his own corruptions.
At the time of Martin Luther the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church had become corrupt with false teachers and the power they were given over the people. The Pope and the emperor had become cohorts in the use of power to control the people. Power given to man has a tendency to corrupt his thoughts and actions because the heart of man is evil. The com ...[text shortened]... was only after his time that the corrupt Roman Catholic Church declared them inspired scripture.
The bible came into being (so to speak) hundreds of years before Luther, and the catholic church of his time. All the books were carefully chosen by holy men of integrity and faith.
Just because the catholic church of that time was corrupt, and Luther had arguments against some of the Bible's teaching, did he have the right to change it. Did the men who followed the teachings of Luther have the right to change the focus of the bible. Therefore changing some of the teachings for all mankind.
Now days, nearly all Protestants have no clue of teachings of purgatory, along with other teachings. Yet understanding purgatory, it's purpose, would be a great benefit especially in this modern age. It teaches of God's great mercy, and the grace of God.
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01 Feb 14
Originally posted by PudgenikIt seems to me that the question is, these humans being fallible, whether the selection of the books of the Bible were guided by divine providence, and when this happened. Where is this answer to be found?
I am catholic, but i am not making excuses for the church. I agree that some of the arguments of Luther were valid. But i am not here to debate over the validity of Luther's teachings and his own corruptions.
The bible came into being (so to speak) hundreds of years before Luther, and the catholic church of his time. All the books were carefully chosen ...[text shortened]... at benefit especially in this modern age. It teaches of God's great mercy, and the grace of God.
01 Feb 14
1 edit
Reasons why the Apocrypha is not part of inspired scripture.
http://carm.org/why-apocrypha-not-in-bible
Martin Luther did not actually delete any of the books but moved what later became the Deuterocanonical books into a section he called the Apocrypha.
The Roman Catholics then had the Council of Trent to condemn Luther for heresy and only then did they declare those as part of their canon of scripture in apparent opposition to Luther's actions.
The apocrypha is a selection of books which were published in the original 1611 King James Bible. These apocryphal books were positioned between the Old and New Testament (it also contained maps and geneologies). The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. A portion of these books were called deuterocanonical books by some entities, such as the Catholic church.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/
01 Feb 14
Originally posted by avalanchethecatas time and space have no meaning to God and the Angels, more than you can imagine can dance on the head of a pin.
So how many angels can dance on the head of a pin then?
Certainly, this subject (removed scripts and books to appease our thoughts and desires) can be considered a mute point. As the paths of the past have brought us to where we are now. To me it is something to contemplate.
01 Feb 14
Originally posted by RJHindsCertainly there are books contained in the bible that very in their importance related to what we deem is necessary to a variety of topics.
Reasons why the Apocrypha is not part of inspired scripture.
http://carm.org/why-apocrypha-not-in-bible
Martin Luther did not actually delete any of the books but moved what later became the Deuterocanonical books into a section he called the Apocrypha.
The Roman Catholics then had the Council of Trent to condemn Luther for heresy and only then did ...[text shortened]... e entities, such as the Catholic church.
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Apocrypha-Books/
I have to believe that those who first came up with the Bibles completion were way more interested in bringing it's fulness to life, than limiting one subject over another. I have to think they were not so prejudiced against anything. There was no great strife, no huge arguing factions, the church at that time was truly living in spirit.
So within all this thought, there was a purpose, that i believe became lost. Much like the churches are now, constantly at war with each other (verbally). 'Our church is right, you are wrong'. You can see the same here in these forums. How long will it be before another version of scripture will be employed and taught as if any other bible is incorrect.
01 Feb 14
Originally posted by PudgenikI know that you would like to think that at one time all churches were in agreement on everything. However, that doesn't appear to be true to me. It appears there were false teachers and disagreements among them even in the early days. They were all sinners just like us today.
Certainly there are books contained in the bible that very in their importance related to what we deem is necessary to a variety of topics.
I have to believe that those who first came up with the Bibles completion were way more interested in bringing it's fulness to life, than limiting one subject over another. I have to think they were not so prejudice ...[text shortened]... ore another version of scripture will be employed and taught as if any other bible is incorrect.
Are you referring to new books like the books of the Koran (Quran) or the books of Mormon? Or do you mean new translations like the JWs NWT?
02 Feb 14
Originally posted by PudgenikFirstly, you have no idea how god and angels, if they exist, relate to space and time. Secondly, the phrase is 'moot point'. I'm not sure what a mute point would be.
as time and space have no meaning to God and the Angels, more than you can imagine can dance on the head of a pin.
Certainly, this subject (removed scripts and books to appease our thoughts and desires) can be considered a mute point. As the paths of the past have brought us to where we are now. To me it is something to contemplate.
04 Feb 14
1 edit
Originally posted by avalanchethecatActually, i do know how God and Angels relate to time and space. But as i've said in other posts, my personal experiences are hard to comprehend for most. Even among those who know me, it can be a challenge. Spiritually, anything is possible. Your only limit is your own imagination.
Firstly, you have no idea how god and angels, if they exist, relate to space and time. Secondly, the phrase is 'moot point'. I'm not sure what a mute point would be.
Let me put it this way, my wife doesn't mind driving at night. not only do i know where the deer are, but i know what there intentions are. (to cross the road or not).
04 Feb 14
Originally posted by PudgenikSo do you believe you have some type of psychic ability?
Actually, i do know how God and Angels relate to time and space. But as i've said in other posts, my personal experiences are hard to comprehend for most. Even among those who know me, it can be a challenge. Spiritually, anything is possible. Your only limit is your own imagination.
Let me put it this way, my wife doesn't mind driving at night. not only do i know where the deer are, but i know what there intentions are. (to cross the road or not).
04 Feb 14
Originally posted by PudgenikI don't really see how I can respond to this without offending you, so I'll keep it short. You don't know how god and angels relate to time and space. I guess there's a chance you might believe you know, but I don't think even that's true. As for your last two sentences, well, they're just pure hokum.
Actually, i do know how God and Angels relate to time and space. But as i've said in other posts, my personal experiences are hard to comprehend for most. Even among those who know me, it can be a challenge. Spiritually, anything is possible. Your only limit is your own imagination.
Let me put it this way, my wife doesn't mind driving at night. not only do i know where the deer are, but i know what there intentions are. (to cross the road or not).
06 Feb 14
Originally posted by PudgenikI agree that you must not be psychic because this avalanchethecat is not a comedian but an atheist intent on mocking.
I'm glad you typed that word. Man i could not figure out how to spell it, psychic.
I am not "psychic", i have been baptized in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.