17 Mar 07
Originally posted by StarrmanOddly enough, the Bible never mentions that humans have free will. It could be that some humans are destined for Heaven and others for Hell - and there's nothing either of those groups can do about it.
Enjoying your free will I see.
I just googled a list:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/free_will.html
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by KellyJayI am not burdened by fear or cowed by threats of eternal damnation. I am responsible for my own actions and live my life by my own choices. I have precious little time to experience as much as I can, instead of holding the ridiculous belief that my reward lays beyond my own life, and so strive to better myself. I love, free of prescription and unfettered by guilt, all the many strange and different things in this world. When I die I will degrade once more into the set of matter that the universe consists of, furthering the life of others. I am fortunate to be, however unlikely my being is and do not waste it with thoughts of some magic placebo for life's questions, which I cannot hope to understand or prove the existence of.
How is that fortunately?
Kelly
I'd say that's pretty fortunate.
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by StarrmanI'm not burdened by them either, so I was wondering why you felt that way?
I am not burdened by fear or cowed by threats of eternal damnation. I am responsible for my own actions and live my life by my own choices. I have precious little time to experience as much as I can, instead of holding the ridiculous belief that my reward lays beyond my own life, and so strive to better myself. I love, free of prescription and unfettered ...[text shortened]... ch I cannot hope to understand or prove the existence of.
I'd say that's pretty fortunate.
Kelly
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by whodeyThe best thing about being an atheist is that you are really agnostic.
Being a Christian I could write volumes about the benefits of my conversion, but instead I thought it would be interesting to hear from the other side. So have at it, how has being an atheist enhanced your life?
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by whodeyNo. Some people of faith may be weaker than me, some stronger. Some use their faith and the strength they get from their religious community to do things I wouldn't have the courage to do, or to face difficulties I luckily don't have to face. That's great for them. I have to look for strength elsewhere. It's not a question of being better off. I didn't choose to be an agnostic (I am not an atheist) because of any benefits it would give me. I didn't choose it at all. I don't have a choice. I am incapable of believing in something which doesn't make sense to me. I had a "religious phase" when I was a teenager. I enjoyed the benefits, but I couldn't shut off my critical thinking forever. Once I had realized I was deceiving myself, there was no way back. I have found a meaningful and satisfying life outside religion, so I don't feel I miss out on anything, but I also don't think being agnostic makes life easier or better.
Do you find that you are better off because you find that men and women of faith are "weaker" for feeling that they need a higher power to lean on than those who do not?
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by StarrmanHow does that work, I'm not concern about sin, I'm not concern about God's being upset, I enjoy God's grace and mercy which removes all fear about those things, and you are saying I'm burdened by fear? Either it is an issue or it isn't.
But you are, you just fail to see it. No problem, it's your choice.
Kelly
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by KellyJayNonsense, you clearly are concerned about both of those things because to upset god and to live in sin means being removed from his sight forever. That's what you fear more than anything, because you value god's love more than anything. Are you denying that?
How does that work, I'm not concern about sin, I'm not concern about God's being upset, I enjoy God's grace and mercy which removes all fear about those things, and you are saying I'm burdened by fear? Either it is an issue or it isn't.
Kelly
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by StarrmanNo, I do not deny I value God's love. I also do not see how what you
Nonsense, you clearly are concerned about both of those things because to upset god and to live in sin means being removed from his sight forever. That's what you fear more than anything, because you value god's love more than anything. Are you denying that?
have done in your denying God changes anything with regard to guilt
and fear either. You have made a choice you believes deals with those
two things, if your choice actually does correctly deals with them
remain to be seen.
I still don’t see your rational in denying God, since fear and guilt are
really issues with or with out God, guilt is a consequence of bad
actions that can happen with or without God, fear depending on how
the word is used can mean many things, from great respect do to the
power that could be exerted, or dread due to the unknown or some
type of damage that could happen. I fear electrical power to, but I
don’t deny it because of the respect of its power either.
Kelly
17 Mar 07
Originally posted by KellyJayYou misunderstand. We both fear and have guilt about things which are appropriate to our everyday lives, everybody - atheist or theist - does, that much is undeniable. But you also carry the burden of guilt and fear before god, which I do not. It is my belief that this burden is unwarranted and counter productive to your potential as a human.
No, I do not deny I value God's love. I also do not see how what you
have done in your denying God changes anything with regard to guilt
and fear either. You have made a choice you believes deals with those
two things, if your choice actually does correctly deals with them
remain to be seen.
I still don’t see your rational in denying God, since fear ...[text shortened]... ar electrical power to, but I
don’t deny it because of the respect of its power either.
Kelly