Belief

Fersboo

Spirituality

15 Sep '05 16:43

Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
15 Sep '05 16:43
Is it cool or hip not to believe in a higher being or diety?

Can someone of intelligence believe in a higher being or diety?

Is any benefit derived from allowing the belief in a higher being or deity to exist?

I ask these questions as a person raised in the church who has fallen from faith. I believe that religion has pluses and minuses.

NOTE: I am not looking to start a flame war, just a nice, pleasant conversation.
dj2becker
Joined
01 Oct '04
Moves
12095
15 Sep '05 16:54
Originally posted by Fersboo
Is it cool or hip not to believe in a higher being or diety?

Can someone of intelligence believe in a higher being or diety?

Is any benefit derived from allowing the belief in a higher being or deity to exist?

I ask these questions as a person raised in the church who has fallen from faith. I believe that religion has pluses and minuses.

NOTE: I am not looking to start a flame war, just a nice, pleasant conversation.
Is it cool or hip not to believe in a higher being or diety?

Do you think that all there is to life is being cool or hip?

Can someone of intelligence believe in a higher being or diety?

It depends on whether you regard Albert Einstein as being someone of intelligence...

Is any benefit derived from allowing the belief in a higher being or deity to exist?

I believe so, yes.

I ask these questions as a person raised in the church who has fallen from faith. I believe that religion has pluses and minuses.

I believe that 'organised religion' is responsible for your condition. I believe it is possible to go to Church all your life and still not know God at all.
Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
15 Sep '05 17:20
Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]Is it cool or hip not to believe in a higher being or diety?

Do you think that all there is to life is being cool or hip?

Can someone of intelligence believe in a higher being or diety?

It depends on whether you regard Albert Einstein as being someone of intelligence...

Is any benefit derived from allowing the belief in a highe ...[text shortened]... condition. I believe it is possible to go to Church all your life and still not know God at all.
I hope seminary teaches better communication skills. Like I said, I am not looking to start a fight. I asked about hip/coolness because there seem to be a large amount of Christian-haters on the site (along with America-haters I might add) and wondered if the reason was because it was considered hip to be that way. I wondered that if that wasn't the reason, it might be that 'the intelligent are too smart to believe'.

Articulate the benefits that religion brings to society. One of the reasons religion gets a bad rap is that no one counters the negative with the positive.

As I am an intelligent person (if I say so myself), I recognize that there are many who attend church thier entire life and still do not know God. However, I do not believe I have a 'condition'. I have doubt, therefore, instead of totally writing religion off, I look for the positive of religion and use it to benefit my life.

Besides, even if there isn't a diety, what harm comes from living a pious life?
Nordlys
The sky
Joined
05 Apr '05
Moves
10385
15 Sep '05 18:08
Originally posted by Fersboo
I asked about hip/coolness because there seem to be a large amount of Christian-haters on the site
I doubt this is true. My impression is that very few people here have anything against Christians who don't try to convert everyone else. Personally I don't even hate those who do, I just often find them annoying and ridiculous, and their version of Christianity doesn't make any sense to me.

It may be hip or cool in some groups not to believe in a higher being or deity, and there may be some people for whom this is the main reason why they aren't religious. This certainly isn't the case for me. When I was a teenager, I really wanted to believe in the Christian God, and for a short time I did (I took my confirmation very seriously). However, when I started to think more about my beliefs and read the bible, it just didn't make sense to me anymore. Giving up my belief also meant to give up the feeling of community I had had at my church. People outside church didn't care one way or the other. I stopped to believe because I couldn't lie to myself anymore, not because I wanted to impress anyone.
widget
NowYouSeeIt
NowYouDon't
Joined
29 Jan '02
Moves
318376
15 Sep '05 20:42
Originally posted by Fersboo
...I asked about hip/coolness because there seem to be a large amount of Christian-haters on the site (along with America-haters I might add) and wondered if the reason was because it was considered hip to be that way. I wondered that if that wasn't the reason, it might be that 'the intelligent are too smart to believe'.
An interesting observation, Furball.

Speaking as an un-cool, un-hip older guy who might be mistaken for being christian-hating or even american-hating, my own cotributions are launched into these forums with a wing and a prayer. I like to think some few words lodge somewhere where they might root or even flourish....

Some of my best buddies are christian americans. Unfortunately, much of the claptrap that Dubya & Co have foisted upon us is driven, imho, by a corporate agenda that feeds on US right wing fundamentalist christian fear. Whether the immoral individuals driving these corporate entities are christians or americans, in reality, matters very little. They and their christian american flock feed the furnaces.

Unfortubnately, it is the sheep that go to the slaughter, not the wolves.
AThousandYoung
Insanity at Masada
tinyurl.com/mw7txe34
Joined
23 Aug '04
Moves
26660
15 Sep '05 20:57
Originally posted by Fersboo
Is it cool or hip not to believe in a higher being or diety?

Can someone of intelligence believe in a higher being or diety?

Is any benefit derived from allowing the belief in a higher being or deity to exist?

I ask these questions as a person raised in the church who has fallen from faith. I believe that religion has pluses and minuses.

NOTE: I am not looking to start a flame war, just a nice, pleasant conversation.
Is it cool or hip not to believe in a higher being or diety?

I'd say it's more cool or hip to believe in such a being.

Can someone of intelligence believe in a higher being or diety?

Of course. There are many intelligent people who have this belief.

Is any benefit derived from allowing the belief in a higher being or deity to exist?

Your question is ambiguous. Do you mean in oneself, or in others?
AThousandYoung
Insanity at Masada
tinyurl.com/mw7txe34
Joined
23 Aug '04
Moves
26660
15 Sep '05 21:00
Originally posted by Fersboo
I hope seminary teaches better communication skills. Like I said, I am not looking to start a fight. I asked about hip/coolness because there seem to be a large amount of Christian-haters on the site (along with America-haters I might add) and wondered if the reason was because it was considered hip to be that way. I wondered that if that wasn't the reas ...[text shortened]... fit my life.

Besides, even if there isn't a diety, what harm comes from living a pious life?
Besides, even if there isn't a diety, what harm comes from living a pious life?

Such peoples' values and beliefs about the world around them are molded by their piousness. This can cause such people to stifle science, oppose abortion, discriminate against homosexuals etc.
Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
15 Sep '05 21:141 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
[bYour question is ambiguous. Do you mean in oneself, or in others?[/b]

The question is not ambiguous. Does religion provide any benefit?

Look at all the negatives about religion [just in a historic sense, not a personal freedom sense], the Crusades, the persecution of the Jews [Christian, Moslem & secular], the Inquisition, the Jihad, 100 ye ...[text shortened]... ld to participate with childrens' church so she can learn the positive lessons that religion holds.
Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
15 Sep '05 21:16
I must have written too much, the above post does not resemble what I originally posted.
Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
15 Sep '05 21:18
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
[b]Besides, even if there isn't a diety, what harm comes from living a pious life?

Such peoples' values and beliefs about the world around them are molded by their piousness. This can cause such people to stifle science, oppose abortion, discriminate against homosexuals etc.[/b]
So can many things, lack of education, superstition, a true belief that something is wrong, etc......

Science today is stifled more from other scientists than by religion. Some believe that taking a life is wrong to feed oneself, some believe that killing an unborn child is wrong.
AThousandYoung
Insanity at Masada
tinyurl.com/mw7txe34
Joined
23 Aug '04
Moves
26660
15 Sep '05 22:26
Originally posted by Fersboo
So can many things, lack of education, superstition, a true belief that something is wrong, etc......

Science today is stifled more from other scientists than by religion. Some believe that taking a life is wrong to feed oneself, some believe that killing an unborn child is wrong.
I don't disagree with your first sentence. I was just answering his question.

Science is stifled by scientists? How so?
AThousandYoung
Insanity at Masada
tinyurl.com/mw7txe34
Joined
23 Aug '04
Moves
26660
15 Sep '05 22:29
Originally posted by Fersboo
The question is ambiguous. Communists suppressing religion is suppressing such belief, as is refusing to think about the possibility but brainwashing yourself into strong atheism.

Religion does provide benefits. For example, it provides emotional comfort, organizes people, and provides a moral code that isn't too bad in my opinion, though it's not perfect.
Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
16 Sep '05 02:39
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
I don't disagree with your first sentence. I was just answering his question.

Science is stifled by scientists? How so?
When scientists wish to discourage lines of though that disagree with thier own worldview or hypothesis, they ostracize those who don't share thier view. Those that present evidence lessen the arguement for global warming are dismissed as frauds, for having a different opinion. Eygptologists, schooled in the traditional thought resist any new ideas.

When is the last time we have heard of religion suppressing religion. ID is just another way to try to introduce creationism back into the cirriculum [misguided I would say], but religion in most of the states isn't trying to remove evolution from the ciriculum.
Fersboo
Annapolis MD
Joined
16 Aug '05
Moves
947
16 Sep '05 02:41
Originally posted by AThousandYoung
The question is ambiguous. Communists suppressing religion is suppressing such belief, as is refusing to think about the possibility but brainwashing yourself into strong atheism.

Religion does provide benefits. For example, it provides emotional comfort, organizes people, and provides a moral code that isn't too bad in my opinion, though it's not perfect.
So there can not be any more arguement about the ambiguity of my freakin' question.

Do you believe that there is a personal benefit by living within some, most or all of the strictures of the Bible?

Do you believe that there is a community benefit by living within some, most or all of the strictures of the Bible?

Examples - Do not murder - Yes, there is a personal and community benefit if we follow this stricture.
AThousandYoung
Insanity at Masada
tinyurl.com/mw7txe34
Joined
23 Aug '04
Moves
26660
16 Sep '05 03:01
Originally posted by Fersboo
When scientists wish to discourage lines of though that disagree with thier own worldview or hypothesis, they ostracize those who don't share thier view. Those that present evidence lessen the arguement for global warming are dismissed as frauds, for having a different opinion. Eygptologists, schooled in the traditional thought resist any new ideas.

Wh ...[text shortened]... d say], but religion in most of the states isn't trying to remove evolution from the ciriculum.
When scientists wish to discourage lines of though that disagree with thier own worldview or hypothesis, they ostracize those who don't share thier view. Those that present evidence lessen the arguement for global warming are dismissed as frauds, for having a different opinion.

Sure, that kind of thing happens sometimes, but scientists are not some monolithic organization. If one scientists falsely discredits someone, another will often take up the position, and the one who's right will end up looking much better than the one who's wrong. Often however people claim to have evidence of something or other and their evidence isn't solid. Scientists are highly competitive with one another and the truth comes out through that competition.

Can you give me specifics? For example, who was dismissed as a fraud for presenting evidence against global warming?

When is the last time we have heard of religion suppressing religion.

You must be kidding. Do you seriously believe religious people don't suppress other religions with different beliefs? The list goes on and on. The Crusades, the Protestant vs. Catholic fighting, Muslims forcing their religion on people on pain of death...

Eygptologists, schooled in the traditional thought resist any new ideas.

Would you elaborate?

religion in most of the states isn't trying to remove evolution from the ciriculum

Evolution is too well established for anyone to try this. I bet many religious people would if they could.