Before the Universe Was

@wolfgang59

If you don't believe that there are limitations to what human language can exhaustively express, perhaps you could define consciousness.

Avoid circular reasoning.

@sonship said
@wolfgang59

If you don't believe that there are limitations to what human language can exhaustively express, perhaps you could define consciousness.

Avoid circular reasoning.

Good idea for a topic in its own right.

@fmf said

You want your intellect and words to be perceived and treated as being comparable to Stephen Hawking's?

Good idea for a topic in its own right.

@sonship said

You want your intellect and words to be perceived and treated as being comparable to Stephen Hawking's?

Good idea for a topic in its own right.

Go for it if you think so.

Before the creation God ordained that His communicable attributes would be share with Him by man.

For example God ALONE was holy. But in creation and salvation He will dispense His holy nature into many sons of God. Then God and His sons are holy.

"Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name?

For You ALONE are holy, ... (Rev. 15:4a)

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world TO BE HOLY and without blemish before Him in love.

Predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ ..." (Eph. 1:4,5a)

Before creation God marked out a destiny that His holy nature would be imparted into billions of sons of God.

Before creation God ALONE has immortality. But in creation and salvation He will swallow up His people with eternal life and immortality.

" ... the blessed and only Sovereign will show, the King of those who reign as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, Who ALONE has immortality, ... "( 1 Timothy 6:15,16a)

"For also, we who are in this tabernacle [physical body] , being burdened, in that we do not desire to be unclothed, but clothed upon, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by [divine] life." (2 Cor. 5:4)

" ... the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.

For this corruptible must put on immortality." (1 Cor. 15:52b,53)

What God is alone, in His communicable attributes, the saved will "put on" and will be "swallowed up" in.

What a magnificent and victorious conclusion to history and climax to Christ's Gospel.

@wolfgang59

t is exactly this mish-mash of undefined concepts and words that
bedazzled the uneducated of previous generations which now just
makes religion look rather silly verbal smoke and mirrors.

I think that if ANYTHING exists then SOMETHING had to exist eternally.

The existence of anything proves that something had to pre-exist everything and do so forever - eternally.

Secondly, for all ELSE to exist this eternally existing cause must have a will.

I wait your better alternative to the explanation - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. " (Genesis 1:1) if you think that is mishmash.

Well, its quiet in here. Maybe its me.

Anyway, a few more things about before the universe was. I think this is related.

"O Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations.
Before the mountains were brought forth, and before You gave birth to the earth and the world, Indeed from eternity to eternity, You are God." (Psalm 90:1)

I like this passage not just because it shows that God is the eternal ever existing and self existing Person. But it strongly implies that before God even created human beings He Himself is their most secure and lasting home - dwelling place.

Our Creator from eternity is also our true HOME and dwelling place from eternity, before God brought forth the earth and world and humans.

You have been our dwelling place in all generations.

Another thing God did before the creation of the universe is He ordained that His apostles would possess a certain kind of wisdom. That is wisdom which transcends all that human culture could produce living apart from God.

"But we [the apostles] speak wisdom among those who are full-grown, yet a wisdom not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are being brought to nought;

But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the wisdom which has been hidden, which God predestinated before the ages for our glory." (1 Cor. 2:6,7)

A certain wisdom and wisdom speech were predestinated for the apostles of the church "before the ages" for their glory. Glory here is God expressed. Ie. the glory of God expressed through His apostles.

@wolfgang59

It is exactly this mish-mash of undefined concepts and words that
bedazzled the uneducated of previous generations which now just
makes religion look rather silly verbal smoke and mirrors.

On the contrary. The Christian church and the Gospel of John and book of Genesis have marvelously stood the test of time. They have all been whittled, sliced and diced, picked at, poked at for thousands of years. They're still here. The books are still hugely read and popular.

And dismissal of the community faith by people like you has been like trying to wear down an anvil with a marshmellow hammer.

Now, go find how many websites on the Big Bang Theory speak in somewhat similar language, like what possibly happened "before".