08 Dec 07
Originally posted by rwingettYou're trying to blur the distinction between Atheism & Agnosticism.
You are incorrect. It is commonly assumed by people who don't know any better that atheists are limited to those who positively affirm the non-existence of god. But this is quite false. Most atheists (myself included) think it is impossible to know whether god exists, but they see no reason to believe that he does. Therefore, as the case for god has not bee ...[text shortened]... position, you will see that your so called 'agnosticism' is really only a subset of atheism.
Clearly from this quote you are a sceptical agnostic.
Lets see what Collins dictionary has to say:
Atheism = 1.Belief that there is no God
Agnosticism = 1.One who holds that we can know nothing of things outside the material world
Fair play to you if you live in a world of your own definitions, but a conversation with anyone outside your circle of 1 will be quite difficult due to lack of common ground!
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchIf you want to haggle about definitions, then lets get right down to it.
You're trying to blur the distinction between Atheism & Agnosticism.
Clearly from this quote you are a sceptical agnostic.
Lets see what Collins dictionary has to say:
Atheism = 1.Belief that there is no God
Agnosticism = 1.One who holds that we can know nothing of things outside the material world
Fair play to you if you live i ...[text shortened]... tion with anyone outside your circle of 1 will be quite difficult due to lack of common ground!
Theism is the belief in a god or gods. Atheism is to be without theism, which is to be without belief in a god or gods. It's really that simple. Therefore, there are only two types of people in the world. There are theists and there are atheists, and everyone is one or the other. If you believe in god then you are a theist. If you are not a theist, then by definition you are an atheist. Whether you choose to call yourself a 'skeptical agnostic' or not is irrelevant to me.
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by rwingettPlease define agnosticism for me.
If you want to haggle about definitions, then lets get right down to it.
Theism is the belief in a god or gods. Atheism is to be without theism, which is to be without belief in a god or gods. It's really that simple. Therefore, there are only two types of people in the world. There are theists and there are atheists, and everyone is one or the other. ...[text shortened]... eist. Whether you choose to call yourself a 'skeptical agnostic' or not is irrelevant to me.
In your own terms 😉
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchAgnostic: Someone who has been falsely led to believe that all atheists positively assert the non-existence of god, and who therefore feels the need to make up a new term to distance himself from that perceived position.
Please define agnosticism for me.
In your own terms 😉
08 Dec 07
1 edit
Originally posted by rwingettLol.
Agnostic: Someone who has been falsely led to believe that all atheists positively assert the non-existence of god, and who therefore feels the need to make up a new term to distance himself from that perceived position.
Well avoided!
Agnosticism is not a new term. I just gave you the principle definition from a 15 year-old dictionary.
A shame that agnosticism negates your black & white view of belief systems but many Atheists would take you to task when you claim that anyone who does not positively believe in God is an Atheist.
I am uncertain of God's existence. Atheism is a positive belief in there being no God. Theism is the positive belief in God.
Ergo = I am neither Atheist nor Theist.
There is a category that covers my "belief" in this matter & it just so happens to be called Agnosticism.
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchThe term 'agnosticism' is older than 15 years, but in the grand scheme of things its not really all that old. It was first introduced in 1871 by Thomas Huxley. But I assert that my definition is correct. You have said that you are not a theist. In that case I fail to see how you could avoid being an atheist. After all, you are without theism.
Lol.
Well avoided!
Agnosticism is not a new term. I just gave you the principle definition from a 15 year-old dictionary.
A shame that agnosticism negates your black & white view of belief systems but many Atheists would take you to task when you claim that anyone who does not positively believe in God is an Atheist.
I am uncertain of God's exi ...[text shortened]... ategory that covers my "belief" in this matter & it just so happens to be called Agnosticism.
But in practical terms it really makes no difference to me if people want to call themselves agnostics. It is typically understood to mean someone who thinks that god is inherently unknowable, or that the term is incoherent, and therefore nothing can be said about his existence. An atheist, by contrast, is thought to be someone who thinks that god is inherently unknowable, or that the term is incoherent, and therefore should not be believed. The atheist correctly realizes that the burden of proof is upon the theist.
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchYes, it is possible. I cannot rule it out. But I see absolutely nothing to indicate that a god does exist. Therefore I have no basis for believing in any gods. I will go on the assumption that no gods exist until I can be given reason to believe otherwise.
Let me try a different approach.
rwingett, do you believe that however pointless or unlikely it may be, God might possibly exist in some form or other?
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by josephwAnd you call me insane?
The argument that says "there is no God" is void of meaning. Whereas the argument for a creator is full of life and gives us purpose.
God is a life giving spirit. The message from God to us is one of hope and love for all who accept his gift.
If one believes that there is no eternal life, then that one has nothing to live for beyond his or her immediate material existence.
What a drag!
08 Dec 07
1 edit
Chambers also gives the principle definitions of:
Theist = the belief in the existence of God
Atheism as = the belief that there is no God
Agnostic = someone who believes that one can know only about material things and so believes that nothing can be known about the existence of God
I belong to the third category, not the second.
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by rwingettSo you do not Believe there is no God (Atheism) but instead believe that God may exist but at present the matter is unknowable.
Yes, it is possible. I cannot rule it out. But I see absolutely nothing to indicate that a god does exist. Therefore I have no basis for believing in any gods. I will go on the assumption that no gods exist until I can be given reason to believe otherwise.
You have early onset Agnosticism.
Go see a Doctor.
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by David CBut if we choose to ignore principle dictionary definitions then we lose a common point of reference.
...and there's your disconnect, SB. You are defining Atheism differently than does RWing (and others).
rwingett chooses to define the term Agnostic as some sort of sub-division of Atheism purely because Theism is a positive that there is a God & the other 2 are not.
However, Agnosticism & Atheism are very different in their meanings as I have proved by giving evidence to support this.
08 Dec 07
Originally posted by SquelchbelchDavidC is correct, you are dogmatically clinging to your pre-conceived notion of what atheism means. Until you can widen your scope of research beyond the narrow confines of your home dictionary, I'm afraid there's little I can do for you.
So you do not Believe there is no God (Atheism) but instead believe that God may exist but at present the matter is unknowable.
You have early onset Agnosticism.
Go see a Doctor.