At what order of complexity...

Originally posted by JS357
Atomic and molecular theory are themselves fairly recent scientific advances. If we were having this conversation a couple thousand years ago you might be saying that the classical elements earth, air, fire and water were created by God in the beginning, and all substances are composed of some combination of up to 4 of them. Blessedly, the Bible makes no such ...[text shortened]... mbine. And unlike biological evolution theory, there does not appear to be any Biblical problem.

Of course, I am only speaking from my limited knowledge and not from the knowledge of God.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Of course, I am only speaking from my limited knowledge and not from the knowledge of God.

Well if you realize you have limited knowledge why do you think the moon got cooled off with a planet sized supply of water? BTW, people have walked on the moon and they find no dried up river beds or washes with tumbled rocks in them. So much for THAT theory.

Originally posted by C Hess
I don't. Here's our conversation so far:

[b]You: Small changes lead to big changes, but not too big.
Me: There's no limit to how big the changes can be, given enough small changes.
Just look at what happens 55000 lines later, given tiny changes per line.
You: Now show me how lines can transform into something completely different, lik ...[text shortened]...
Me: I honestly don't.


I hereby officially declare this conversation comedy gold. 🙄[/b]

"Start with life and end with life. Now, if you can show me how life turns into a galaxy I'd accept your views."

This is why I said that!
Start with life, no, start with no life!
Not sure where or why you'd go from life into a galaxy, so I went with
the beginning of the universe, either you start with something or nothing,
and both choices have issues.
Kelly

Originally posted by sonhouse
Just wonder what you will think if and when science DOES make life from nonlife?

Science doesn't make anything people do.
What would I think if people through a controlled environment, with a ton
of effort, planning, and specific material all being put together to come up
with life, I'd say that proves Intelligent design nothing more. It most
certainly would not show us in an uncontrolled environment with no plan,
or purpose in place could it happen!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"Start with life and end with life. Now, if you can show me how life turns into a galaxy I'd accept your views."

This is why I said that!
Start with life, no, start with no life!
Not sure where or why you'd go from life into a galaxy, so I went with
the beginning of the universe, either you start with something or nothing,
and both choices have issues.
Kelly

But that was me trying to make obvious the fact that evolution is not about life turning into
something other than life, or non-life turning into life. Let's try and stay focused on
evolution first, and then worry about abiogenesis or what have you.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Science doesn't make anything people do.
What would I think if people through a controlled environment, with a ton
of effort, planning, and specific material all being put together to come up
with life, I'd say that proves Intelligent design nothing more. It most
certainly would not show us in an uncontrolled environment with no plan,
or purpose in place could it happen!
Kelly

You're wrong. How surprising. 😞

If you recreate the conditions that would arise naturally on a primordial earth, and observe
life starting, that's pretty solid evidence that life can start without an intelligent designer.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well if you realize you have limited knowledge why do you think the moon got cooled off with a planet sized supply of water? BTW, people have walked on the moon and they find no dried up river beds or washes with tumbled rocks in them. So much for THAT theory.

That is because the water absorbed the heat of the moon then turned to gas and the gravitational pull of the moon could not keep it and it drifted out into space were it cooled and eventually was attracted by the earth's gravitational pull and became part of the flood of Noah's day.

Originally posted by C Hess
But that was me trying to make obvious the fact that evolution is not about life turning into
something other than life, or non-life turning into life. Let's try and stay focused on
evolution first, and then worry about abiogenesis or what have you.

If you wish to forget about abiogenesis to get life then you have to accept the other theory that God did it. Because without life there can not be any biological evolution. We must then revise the theory to fit with Creationism because there is no evolution.

Originally posted by C Hess
But that was me trying to make obvious the fact that evolution is not about life turning into
something other than life, or non-life turning into life. Let's try and stay focused on
evolution first, and then worry about abiogenesis or what have you.

Works for me.
Kelly

Originally posted by C Hess
You're wrong. How surprising. 😞

If you recreate the conditions that would arise naturally on a primordial earth, and observe
life starting, that's pretty solid evidence that life can start without an intelligent designer.

"recreate the conditions" is amusing, unless you want to avoid evolution
and stick with this we can. I was under the impression you didn't want
to go here!
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
If you wish to forget about abiogenesis to get life then you have to accept the other theory that God did it. Because without life there can not be any biological evolution. We must then revise the theory to fit with Creationism because there is no evolution.

I believe in evolution, within kinds we see it all the time. What I do not
buy into is the ever changing life froms from a single life form into the
vast array we see today.
Kelly

Originally posted by C Hess
You're wrong. How surprising. 😞

If you recreate the conditions that would arise naturally on a primordial earth, and observe
life starting, that's pretty solid evidence that life can start without an intelligent designer.

That is your religious view, mine is that God did it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe in evolution, within kinds we see it all the time. What I do not
buy into is the ever changing life froms from a single life form into the
vast array we see today.
Kelly

I am sorry, but I have never seen any evolution. I only see variations in reproduction.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"recreate the conditions" is amusing, unless you want to avoid evolution
and stick with this we can. I was under the impression you didn't want
to go here!
Kelly

Obviously, these are two different conversations. I don't mind talking about abiogenesis.
What I mind is when you pretend that somehow the problem of abiogenesis presents a
problem for evolution, like they're connected somehow. They're not.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is your religious view, mine is that God did it.

Did you even read that post you replied to?