02 Jul 13
Originally posted by Rajk999Romans 6:9
No.
Born again of water means baptism and that is a physical ritual .. done by man.
Born again of the spirit is the believer having the spirit of God in him .. this is done by Christ.
Both do not necessarily happen together if at all.
Immortality has nothing to do with being born again. They are two separate matters. Immortality is only granted after Christ returns.
New International Version (NIV)
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
It would seem you are wrong again..... It would seem that when he was resurrected is the point he was given immortatality.
So do more research before you comment.
02 Jul 13
Originally posted by galveston75You need to read carefully before you comment. I already said that Christ was given immortality and therefore he was the first in that group.
Romans 6:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
It would seem you are wrong again..... It would seem that when he was resurrected is the point he was given immortatality.
So do more research before you comment.
My post in response to Hinds was about people not Christ.
02 Jul 13
2 edits
Kind of getting back to the topic of this thread is this scripture:
Revelation 20:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
First still speaking of immortality, this is an explination of the choosen or holy ones that will also be granted immortality once they are resurrected to heaven and will be ruling with Jesus over the Kingdom.
And also looking at this scripture it states WHO they will be priest with. It says "God and Christ".
Why are these two mentioned "separately" as if the were separate spirits and the Holy spirit is not mentioned just as it is not mentioned in many parts of the Bible as in Revelation and the visions where the other two are?
If all 3 are indeed one on some level for the trinitairians idea, then why would this and many other scriptures not just call them all "God" and still why is the holy spirit not mentioned?
02 Jul 13
Originally posted by Rajk999So do you believe there are several different ways to be born?
No.
Born again of water means baptism and that is a physical ritual .. done by man.
Born again of the spirit is the believer having the spirit of God in him .. this is done by Christ.
Both do not necessarily happen together if at all.
Immortality has nothing to do with being born again. They are two separate matters. Immortality is only granted after Christ returns.
The Instructor
02 Jul 13
Originally posted by RJHindsThere are two different resurrections. One to heaven and the general resurrection for humans on earth.
So do you consider resurrection from the dead the same as being born of the dead too?
The Instructor
No one Jesus resurrected went to heaven but were resurrected back here on the earth where we are from just as God designed for us to be.
The other resurrection is only for the chosen ones (144,000) ( little flock ) who go to heaven to rule with Jesus over the humans here on earth.
Can you show me by scripture anything different or that this is not true?
02 Jul 13
Originally posted by RJHindsThe Bible refers to born of water and born of the spirit. These are two different things. I have never come across the expression born of the dead. Can you elaborate?
So do you consider resurrection from the dead the same as being born of the dead too?
The Instructor
03 Jul 13
3 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999No I have not seen "born of the dead" either, but in an earlier post on this thread sonship referred to Jesus being called "the Firstborn of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).
The Bible refers to born of water and born of the spirit. These are two different things. I have never come across the expression born of the dead. Can you elaborate?
And galvestion75 says that is because Christ is the first man to be resurrected and I think you agreed that meant Christ was the first man to be resurrected to immortality, unless I am mistaken. Now if that is the case and we know that there is supposed to be many more resurrected to immortality after that, then that would mean those others resurrected are the others born of the dead after the first born of the dead, Christ Jesus.
That is the belief of the Jehovah's Witnesses and it seemed as if you agreed with that. So I was trying to get clarification on the ideas of the resurrections, being born, being born again, first born of the dead, and born of the dead, if there is such a thing as being born of the dead?
I was also thinking about the idea of becoming a new creation in Christ and how this plays into these ideas. Also Christ Jesus is called the first born of all creation. It seems a bit confusing and perhaps someone can give a good but easy to understand explanation to it all.
The Instructor
03 Jul 13
Well being born is just what it says, to be born as a human baby.
To be born again is not just referring to be resurrected. Again there are 2 resurrections discussed in the Bible.
One is simply resurrected back to life here on this planet at a future time.
The second is the spiritual resurrection to heaven or "being reborn".
The reason it is called being born again is just that, they are reborn into a spiritual life forever and no longer a human.
03 Jul 13
2 edits
Originally posted by galveston75This is still not clear to me because Rajk999 seems to agree with you on the resurrection being the same as being born of the dead as Christ is the first born of the dead, but not on the born again idea. Well, here is a repeat of his comments:
Well being born is just what it says, to be born as a human baby.
To be born again is not just referring to be resurrected. Again there are 2 resurrections discussed in the Bible.
One is simply resurrected back to life here on this planet at a future time.
The second is the spiritual resurrection to heaven or "being reborn".
The reason it is cal ...[text shortened]... born again is just that, they are reborn into a spiritual life forever and no longer a human.
"Born again of water means baptism and that is a physical ritual .. done by man.
Born again of the spirit is the believer having the spirit of God in him .. this is done by Christ.
Both do not necessarily happen together if at all.
Immortality has nothing to do with being born again. They are two separate matters. Immortality is only granted after Christ returns."
I found the following explanation of being born again on the web. What do you think about it?
Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm
The Instructor
03 Jul 13
Originally posted by RJHindsI think what you are thinking is yes being born again does start with being baptised. No matter if you are of the great crowd, the earthly group that will live on earth or if you are one who Gods chooses to be of the little flock or the 144,000, you still have to be baptized first. That is a public expression showing to all that you are dedicating your life to Jehovah no matter where your future may be.
This is still not clear to me because Rajk999 seems to agree with you on the resurrection being the same as being born of the dead as Christ is the first born of the dead, but not on the born again idea. Well, here is a repeat of his comments:
[b]"Born again of water means baptism and that is a physical ritual .. done by man.
Born again of the spirit ...[text shortened]... Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm
The Instructor