Age of Earth - Thousands Not Billions

Originally posted by sonship
I meant to write [b]"verse 5" in reference to Genesis 1:5

We discussed Genesis 1:5. I do not read Hebrew. I have been told by those who do that the phrase for the day in verse 5 [edited] "one day" is particular as compared to the other verses mentioning days #2 through #7.

[/b]

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

Originally posted by RJHinds
Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7olX8h7Fsk

Could there be a gap in your brain? Yes.

Originally posted by RJHinds
See if you can comprehend this:

Radioisotope dating flaws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVvGDu9mDuQ

There's no way I'm sitting through another hour of creationist nonsense. If you would care to extract whatever points they make in this presentation I'll be happy to consider them.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7olX8h7Fsk

Totally evading the questions on "the last day" and Revelation? Yes.

Blatant evasion.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7olX8h7Fsk

First untruth of your video -

At 2:13 the speaker says that the Gap Theory came about as a result of Scripture readers looking at outside ideas. This has been debunked before. It has been demonstrated that some Hebrew language readers understood an unspecified length of time BEFORE the invention of Geology as a science or Evolution theory of the 19th century.

That is the first error I came across in your video "Gap Theory - an idea with holes."

Since I am doing the courtesy of going through your video why don't you attempt a reply to my question about "the last day" (John 6:39,40,54,) and the days AFTER "the last day" in Revelation 20 - 22 ?

RJ

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

Second issue:

At 2:35 one speakers says that the problem of sin or suffering is a challenge to anything going against God before Adam sinned.

Well, I agree that it is a theological challenge. But it is not an insurmountable one. The death of Christ for man's sins was retroactively effective for sinners before Christ was incarnated.

Since the effect of the second man's obedience was effective for generations BEFORE the second man, the last Adam was incarnated and died on His cross, it is possible that the sin of the first man Adam and its effects was foreordained by God BEFORE Adam was created also.


The damage of judgment also originates from Satan who as "the Daystar" was there in the early time of the universe's creation.

So while I do not disagree that an unspecified time before Genesis 1:2 with its Satanic rebellion and possible effects of curse and judgment and even possibly death, is a theological challenge, it is not an insurmountable one.

I will now go on to see if there is another point to your video which merits a rebuttal.

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

At 2:37 one speaker says that unspecified time interval or Destruction / Reconstruction "destroys the Gospel message."

No it does not. And it is a whole lot less distracting then your rantings about the Shroud of Turin of which there is no whisper in the Bible that it was found.

In fact the Gospel message certainly can include the history of Satan and the reasons for his hatred of God and opposition to man. Yet from what I have seen your YEC fighting for a hyper literal exposition of Genesis more and more is FORCED to obscure his backround.

This has been demonstrated by you in your theory that Eve was the first created being deceived by Satan. You are forced into these kinds of extremes as a price to uphold a hyper-literal sympathy to Ussher's chronology.

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

Again at 2:42 one speaker says you have a serious problem with Gap Theory by putting death and suffering before Adam and Eve.

Once again - you have salvation by Christ's redemption BEFORE the incarnation of Jesus with His death on Calvary. God pre-ordained ITS effectiveness.

God could also have pre-ordained the effects of Adam's failure in the same way He pre-ordained the effects of Christ's obedience.

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

The Fourth Issue:

Around 6:48 one speaker says specifically Gap Theory calls for millions or billions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

I always simply say "unspecified". I know YECs have a phobia of millions or billions of years. But the point is that the interval of time there is unspecified.

And again it should be pointed at that BEFORE the Geological theories of the 19th century or BEFORE Evolution Theory, as far back as the end of the first century and beginning of the second century AD there is record of Hebrew readers understanding previous worlds destroyed by God.

Zohar - (The Book of Light or Sefer) traditionally ascribed to Simeon ben Jochai:

"These are the generations of heaven and earth ... ... The earth was Tohu and Bohu. These indeed are the worlds of which it is said that the blessed God created them and destroyed them, and, on that account, the earth was desolate and empty."

This pupil's teacher was executed in 135 A.D. (Akiba ben Joseph). One of his pupils is said to have been the author of this book. And the point is NOT that it is on par with the inspired Hebrew Bible or the New Testament.

The point is that it proves that Destruction / Reconstruction was seen by some Hebrew readers of Genesis.

Secondly, if the belief was revived because of Geological discoveries or science theories, that in itself is no error per se. If it is then we would have to fault all heliocentric believers in the solar system, that they should return to certain statements in the Bible that the earth is on foundations and does not move.

To reexamine our interpretations of the utterances of Scripture is not always a bad thing per se.

Why don't the YEC critics of Destruction / Reconstruction also rebuke all believers in MOVING planet earth to return to the interpretation of passages saying the earth DOES NOT MOVE ?

" He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it cannot be moved forever and ever." (Psalm 104:5)

"Indeed the world has been established; it will not be moved." (Psalm 96:10)

How come your Young Earthers are not also Still Earthers charging all who believe in an earth MOVING through space to return to a still and unmovable earth ?

Why don't they scold us that a moving earth belief does "damage to the gospel" too ?

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

Next the speakers refer to what I would say are strawmen or at least some ideas which I do not teach. I won't spend time replying to Gap Theories with imbedded opinions that I don't myself hold. IE. "men without souls" before Adam.

I know nothing about that.
I do teach that the demons are disembodied spirits of creatures that followed Satan in the pre-Adamic rebellion.

This talk about "men without souls" (?) and "Lucifer's flood" is around 7:40.

I would remark that the elimination of the sea in Revelation 22 along with the elimination of Death and Hades argues that SOMETHING about the sea must be reminiscent about the pre-Adamic rebellion and judgment.

I do not use any such phrase as "Lucifer's Flood".

I am going through RJ recommended video. Did he yet respond to my question about "the last day" and the days following it ?

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

At 8:38 there is another untruth which I will ascribe not to their maliciousness necessarily but to their ignorance.

They say Gap was invented by a Pastor Thomas Chalrmers in Scotland in the early 18 hundreds. That is false.
Chalrmers may have been vocal to popularize the view.

It has been proven that the interpretation was about long before Chalrmers preached on it.

This is just YECers parroting in lock step their marching orders from others.

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

Around 8:21 they go into a discussion of the disjunctive WAW of verse two. And some Hebrew translators would not agree with their analysis.

This more technical than I will get into now. And I do not read Hebrew. I do know that the disjunctive WAW has been used to prove the opposite point to which they wish to make.

No slam dunk there for YEC refuting an unspecified time interval in which the earth became waste, empty, without form and void.

Originally posted by sonship

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7olX8h7Fsk

Around 8:21 they go into a discussion of the disjunctive WAW of verse two. And some Hebrew translators would not agree with their analysis.

This more technical than I will get into now. And I do not read Hebrew. ...[text shortened]... ting an unspecified time interval in which the earth became waste, empty, without form and void.

Why can't you just accept the Big Bang theory as the beginning of the universe and just specify it was your god who did the bang and then everything falls into place for everyone?

Could there be a gap of millions of years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? No.

YouTube

I am not going to go through every video RJHinds puts up there in the manner I go through this one.

But at 11:28 the speaker says there is "no way" you can put a gap of time in before verse 2. That is false. It is not at all conclusively proven.

And the word for the earth "was" without form and void is the same as used in Genesis 19:26 where Lot's wife is "became a pillar of salt".

So the evidence of judgment is quite strong and the interpretation of a benigh waiting unformed chaos is not mandatory. And in light of passages on Satan's rebellion and subsequent judgment, Destruction / Reconstruction of the tohu va bohu earth I think is the better interepretation.

Notice that those who argue for a 6,000 year old planet do not do anything with Genesis different in terms of going OUTSIDE of Genesis to be informed of other contributing data.

They go to Exodus 11:20 to gather contributing support.
What are they doing which someone like GH Pember did? Pember ALSO looked at other portions of the Word to put together the pieces of the puzzle.

Don't let YECs give you the impression that they Gap readers are doing something that THEY THEMSELVES are not doing.

As they gather data from other portions of the Scripture for their interpretation so I do also. The "More biblical than thou" facade is untrue. In consulting other portions of the 66 books of the Bible, what are we doing that they are NOT doing?

It should therefore not be objected to on principle, that ALL of the facts concerning the early universe are not all contained in one place in the Bible. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 concerning Satan's origins, God, for His own reasons decided to reveal LATTER in the Bible and not in passages in Genesis.

Originally posted by sonship
First untruth of your video -

At 2:13 the speaker says that the Gap Theory came about as a result of Scripture readers looking at outside ideas. This has been debunked before. It has been demonstrated that [b]some Hebrew language readers understood an unspecified length of time BEFORE the invention of Geology as a science or Evolut ...[text shortened]... st day" (John 6:39,40,54,) [/b] and the days AFTER "the last day" in Revelation 20 - 22 ?[/b]

I already answered your question about the last day. I can't help it if you don't like my answer. It is what it is. 😏