Absolute / Relative Morals

Originally posted by knightmeister
What do you mean by "absolute" ? To me if a moral absolute (eg X is wrong) is true then it means that even if everyone in the world thought X is right , X would still be wrong.

A moral can be ..

a) an opinion (either held by a majority or a few)
Or

b) a moral fact established by moral realities which transcend human opinions.

To use ...[text shortened]... only way to believe in absolute morals is to believe in an absolute moral reality.

A moral is absolute when people from any place (culture) or any time (past of future) agrees of the morality in any circumstances whatsoever. If it is not absolute it is a relative moral depending of the place and time. Therefore there is no absolute moral.

...if you ask me.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
A moral is absolute when people from any place (culture) or any time (past of future) agrees of the morality in any circumstances whatsoever. If it is not absolute it is a relative moral depending of the place and time. Therefore there is no absolute moral.

...if you ask me.

So if all people from all times and all cultures thought raping children was right then it would be absolutely right to do so?

Originally posted by knightmeister
So if all people from all times and all cultures thought raping children was right then it would be absolutely right to do so?

Do you think it's all right to rape children? No? Then it is not an absolute moral.

Originally posted by bbarr
Does all this make sense?

Each entry makes sense. Whether I fully understand them or not is a different matter, but practice makes slightly better.

Originally posted by bbarr
Contrast:

(1) The set of descriptive beliefs I have about the physical world.

(2) The existence of descriptive beliefs, incompatible with my beliefs, that others hold.

Is the second claim evidence for relativism concerning the set of descriptive propositions about the physical world?

I don't know. It seems evidence that people disagree about physical facts. So, descriptive relativism.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Do you think it's all right to rape children? No? Then it is not an absolute moral.

It's not Ok ,but it doesn't matter what moral stance I take on it I can only argue that it's absolutely wrong if there is an absolute moral truth which exists regardless of men's opinions.

Originally posted by bbarr
We are not talking about whether there is a difference between right and wrong nor how one comes to know such a difference. So it is pretty clear that you don't understand what is going on in the post above or this debate generally.

I knew this would happen! 😳

Originally posted by knightmeister
It's not Ok ,but it doesn't matter what moral stance I take on it I can only argue that it's absolutely wrong if there is an absolute moral truth which exists regardless of men's opinions.

Moral doesn't even exist without people who have opinions.

Your opinion is very important to determine wether a moral is relative or absolute. If you belong to a minority opinion, then it doesn't matter how much right you think you are, it is still a relative moral.

There is a society who think paedophilia is okay, and even good for young boys. Their moral differs from the rest of us. It doesn't matter what we think (and believe me, I think it is wrong!) the moral about having sex with small boys is a relative moral.

Perhaps we just define the words 'absolute' and 'relative' differently.
My opinion is crisp clear, despite the fact that it differs from yours.
Your opinion is crisp clear, despite the fact that it differs from mine.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Moral doesn't even exist without people who have opinions.

Your opinion is very important to determine wether a moral is relative or absolute. If you belong to a minority opinion, then it doesn't matter how much right you think you are, it is still a relative moral.

There is a society who think paedophilia is okay, and even good for young boys. Thei ...[text shortened]... ers from yours.
Your opinion is crisp clear, despite the fact that it differs from mine.

So if morals are only a matter of opinion and subject to democratic overrule how come most people don't state them as so but instead resort to absolute moral terms (eg that's just wrong) . Also , it logically means that all we can ever say about Hitler was that he was in a minority group of opinion. We can't say he was absolutely wrong . We can say that the flat earth society is demonstrably and definitely absolutely wrong.