Originally posted by telerionForget the O'Hair thing..... I made a error and admitted it... still haven't seen an answer to the rest of my post, except that only stupid people believe in God .....
I should have included willful ignorance in my first response to you.
You've already been told that your claim in a hoax.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=75701&page=3
Originally posted by SMSBear716I answered your question, and I never said that only stupid people believe in God. I don't think you are paying any attention.
Forget the O'Hair thing..... I made a error and admitted it... still haven't seen an answer to the rest of my post, except that only stupid people believe in God .....
Edit: Okay, here's a recap.
SMS: How come I keep hearing stories of atheists recanting on their deathbed. Take MMO'H for example.
Telerion: Those accounts are nearly always urban legends. You hear them because you run around with people who find those kinds of stories appealing and care little about their truth value. MMO'H is an example of an urban legend.
SMS: Ok, so MMO'H is an urban legend, but you still haven't answered the rest of my question.
Originally posted by SMSBear716We hear a lot of "no atheists in foxholes" type stories because there are a lot of dj2beckers out there who find sharing such stories quaint. Besides, the idea of becoming religio-superstitious in the face of annihilation makes for good comedy. Haven't you ever watched the scene in The Mummy where Beni is confronted by the angry mummy?
Here's a question and the subject may have been broached before.
Why do we hear about more than a few people who claimed that they are athiest all their lives, on their deathbeds or when they are near death, beg God for mercy and forgiveness?
Case in point, Madeline Murray O'Hare. Were they frauds all their life, claiming to not believe in God? Or did they have a epiphany?
One wonders.....
Thoughts?
Now could you lend your thoughts on my story? A guy who had always eschewed the act of peeing in one's pants peed himself when confronted by an angry bear in the wild. Then the bear ate him. Do you think the man was a fraud all those years, or do you think he had at that moment some epiphany regarding the abstruse benefits of urinating in one's pants?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungLack of intelligence or mediocre intelligence causes atheism.
....One is that intelligence causes atheism, ....
One of the defining characteristics of high intelligence is the recognition of the fact that the human mind is incapable of knowing all there is to know and understanding all there is to understand, in this universe.
Originally posted by Rajk999You are making a fine counterexample of your point.
Lack of intelligence or mediocre intelligence causes atheism.
One of the defining characteristics of high intelligence is the recognition of the fact that the human mind is incapable of knowing all there is to know and understanding all there is to understand, in this universe.
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomMost agnostics are just too afraid to admit that "I don't know" = "I do not believe right now" = atheism.
atheism means you believe there is no God. he's saying the people of the highest intelligence must be agnostics since they don't know and/or care
Edit: Anyway he was skirting on the fallacy which says that claiming something does not exist implies having all knowledge.
Originally posted by SMSBear716No one is making absolute statements (if X, then Y), merely claiming a correlation (if X, then it is more likely that Y).
So intelligent people don't believe in God?
As evidence for the claim in question, you might consider this site, posted in another thread:
http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm
I'm not sure how evenhanded it is in what it reports, but it is relevant.
The entrance of the Holy Spirit into a human happens in a realm deeper than the mind. Regeneration occurs in the spirit:
" ... that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6)
Though the mind plays a major part in allowing the Holy Spirit entrance the joining of the human to God takes place in the innermost kernel, the deepest nucleus of the human being - and the human spirit is born of the Holy Spirit.
No, God is not prejudiced to only reveal the most crucial realities about Himself to only people of a certain IQ level. He does not despise the more intelligent. But He certainly does not an attitude that you can only know Him is you are so intelligent.
That which is born of the Spirit Who is God is the human spirit.
And it is in the human spirit - deeper than the human mind, that a born again person is "joined to the Lord" - "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
The union between the human being and the Triune God is in the human spirit being blended with the Holy Spirit to become "one spirit".
Knowing reality is a matter of being "joined to the Lord". Knowing ultimate truth is a matter of being "born of the Spirit"
To make an analogy, how intelligent is an embryo when it is conceived? You did not intelligently choose your first birth. The second birth is similar. This is an imperfect analogy. But it helps.
In the second generating of spiritual life, it is not human intelligence or IQ which is the crucial factor. It is the opening up one's being to decide to let Christ into one's being.
Of course I expect some skeptic to immediately follow this by objecting that I am saying that in following Christ the mind is not important at all. But I am not saying that.
I'm saying that to substantiate God and touch God and to contact God a deeper realm of the human being is involved. It is not an experience only reserved for the very smart or those who think that they are clever.
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomCorrect. The ability to say "I do not know" is lacking in some otherwise intelligent people. Maybe its a kind of immaturity.
atheism means you believe there is no God. he's saying the people of the highest intelligence must be agnostics since they don't know and/or care
Originally posted by Rajk999An atheist can say, "I don't know."
Correct. The ability to say "I do not know" is lacking in some otherwise intelligent people. Maybe its a kind of immaturity.
Listen, I don't believe that there is a god, but, like most atheists I've met, I don't know that there is not one.
You guys can be so obnoxiously dull.
Originally posted by telerionThe atheist does not say that.
An atheist can say, "I don't know."
Listen, I don't believe that there is a god, but, like most atheists I've met, I don't know that there is not one.
You guys can be so obnoxiously dull.
He says "There is no God" .... you fool !
He laughs and ridicules those who are God-faring.
So what part of you is exciting ?
Originally posted by Rajk999Probably the part of me that's educated enough not to misspell 'fearing.'
The atheist does not say that.
He says "There is no God" .... you fool !
He laughs and ridicules those who are God-faring.
So what part of you is exciting ?
And, yes, many atheists do say, "I don't know." To them, the existence of some sort of god is possible but the evidence for it is so scant that it does not merit belief. But don't bother yourself with reality. Stick you head back deep in the Psalms and pretend you know everything.
Originally posted by telerioni think the definition of an atheist is pretty clear that they do NOT believe in god, they may acknowledge the fact that there COULD be a god, but they are still atheist and i think thats what youre saying. but they dont say "idk", they say "god doesnt exist". i am a theist and i acknowledge the fact that god may not exist but that doesnt make me agnostic either; only an agnostic would say "idk" or "idc" but an atheist would strongly say "god doesnt exist, science does exist"
An atheist can say, "I don't know."
Listen, I don't believe that there is a god, but, like most atheists I've met, I don't know that there is not one.
You guys can be so obnoxiously dull.