Originally posted by BigDoggProblemBeg to differ a little again.
The bible doesn't really answer questions 1) through 3); it just claims "God did it", without explaining the method.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1.
Concisely, briefly, and quite to the point you have the origin of heaven and earth. In the beginning God created them.
This means God preceeded them. Before they were around God was around. God created them and "the beginning" began.
This is the origin of the world in one verse. This might also be seen as the origin of time and space. God tells us that in the beginning He created the universe.
In the following verses you get the clear picture that the animal life had its origin in God's creation. The account may not be exhaustive. But the account is adaquate for us to understand the the created lives had their origin in the uncreated and eternal life of the Creator.
Three posts since I posed this question and ample time to respond. And still no one has specifically mentioned another book which takes as much words to explain such importants matters in its introductory chapters
The Hobgobble answers all these questions in very few words
1.) The origin of world
2.) The origin of human beings
3.) The origin of animals
4.) The purpose for which man was created
7.) The origin of industry
8.) The origin of music
11.) The origin of the spread of the nations over the earth
12.) The (general) plan of salvation of the human race
Jimbob 1:1 "...and thy holy hobgoblin did maketh thine earth (complete with factories that thy dinosaurs worked in) with plasticine that he baketh in thy magic pot whilst playing with his banjo, and with this earth he did try to play thy game of football with it but had humans that he created to entertain him by believing in false deities, animals, and nations like America stuck to his righteous shoe. He did decideth that if he wins 4-1 against Sally the silly salmon then humans shalt be saved...but Sally didst bribe thy referee and so lost only at thy score of 4-2
5.) The origin of the institution of marriage
Jimbob 1:2
...and Harry thy Hobgoblin in order to facilitateth thy trick he played on his human creations did invent thy notion of marriage purely for self-amusement to be played out in the face of his false god such that thy women could screw thy men for half their assets that were created by other men and women
6.) The first murder in history
9.) The origin of agriculture
10.) The origin of man's evil behavior
13.) The origin of human government
Jimbob 1:3
...and thy Hobgoblin of holyness did granteth humans thy capacity to realise that stockpiling animals on thy farms and then later killing them is thy means to achieve nourishment; he did knoweth that they would then figure out that they could kill other humans, Harry doth watch this activity with righteous delight but figured that watching over each and every human was boring and so he inventeth thy goverments to ease his holy burden
Originally posted by rooktakesqueenYou are free to claim anything you like. In fact, many of tried. The question really is are they upholding what they know to be the truth. If you are preaching what you believe you will be much more effective in spreading the message than if you knew it were false. You would even gladly die for your beliefs if you truly believed what you were saying. If they are capable of "miracles" it stands to reason they would gain the attention of their followers and thus make believers out of them to help spread the message. Also, it would stand to reason that if they were capable of "miracles" there is a power of some kind behind what they are saying. The other problem, however, is proliferating and maintaining the religion. One would assume that if there is power behind the message that power would find a way to get the message out to the masses where it would remain. Therefore, the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
if i got a bunch of well educated, wise, noble living people to write a book claiming i am the son of god and can perform miracles would you devote your life to me..? if not, why not..? if you say it's because i am not and i have no proof, would you be a little frustrated if i simply held this book in front of you and said but i am, it's written within these pages and these pages are truth..?
Agerg,
I see that you take considerable comfort in nonsense and evasion.
Not much point in debating theological matters with someone who doesn't see any difference between the Bible and Dr. Seuss.
Sorry you've taken to route of dispair - that there is no meaning anywhere.
Nonsense??? Jaywill, Prove that Harry the hobgoblin is not the only supreme deity...I need not prove your god doesn't exist since it says in the Hobgobble he doesn't...I have faith!
where is the evasion?...I provided you with what you asked for
(You'll never get my point it seems with respect to your story bo....ahem, Bible!)
On a more serious note Jaywill...what is the point in entertaining you in *any* type of discussion theistic or not when you have demonstrated cowardice in the face of difficult arguments elsewhere, total disregard for logic, and stand obstinately in the face of the many intelligent people who frequent this forum (religious or otherwise) that don't take that bible of yours word for bloody word!!!
I don't know who I prefer less actually...you or dj2becker
Originally posted by whodeyI think that the gospel had to be tested. The resurrection and victory of Jesus was wonderful news. But God seems to have wanted it to be approved through severe testing.
You are free to claim anything you like. In fact, many of tried. The question really is are they upholding what they know to be the truth. If you are preaching what you believe you will be much more effective in spreading the message than if you knew it were false. You would even gladly die for your beliefs if you truly believed what you were saying. If ...[text shortened]... ut to the masses where it would remain. Therefore, the proof is in the pudding so to speak.
These days when many Christians are in the stands of the arena rather than in the center of it with the lions, this may be hard to understand.
But I am convinced that God wanted all kinds of followers of Jesus in all kinds of difference circumstances to approved through different trying circumstances. For example, in the kingdom age I may meet Stephen and tell him that I marveled at how he was able to stand firm in the gospel in the face of stoning to death.
Then Stephen might say to me "If I on the other hand lived in a world like you had with TV, Xray, medicines, transplants, cell phones, automobiles, and other science marvels, I might have been tempted to believe that there was no need for God and Jesus Christ."
So they had thier trials and we have ours. The approvedness of Christ and the gospel must be manifested through diverse ages and situations. Don't you think so too?
Originally posted by AgergNevermind.
On a more serious note Jaywill...what is the point in entertaining you in *any* type of discussion theistic or not when you have demonstrated cowardice in the face of difficult arguments elsewhere, total disregard for logic, and stand obstinately in the face of the many intelligent people who frequent this forum (religious or otherwise) that don't take that bi ...[text shortened]... of yours word for bloody word!!!
I don't know who I prefer less actually...you or dj2becker
Originally posted by AgergWhat makes you think that I have to disprove that ?
Nonsense??? Jaywill, Prove that Harry the hobgoblin is not the only supreme deity...I need not prove your god doesn't exist since it says in the Hobgobble he doesn't...I have faith!
where is the evasion?...I provided you with what you asked for
(You'll never get my point it seems with respect to your story bo....ahem, Bible!)
I'm here to talk about Jesus Whom I know. I am not here to disprove Dr. Seuss.
If you have something positive to say about Dr. Suess, go ahead and say it. My subject matter is Christ and the gospel and the history of it.
Seems you're the one not getting the point. Say what ever you want about Dr. Suess. I don't need to disprove the existence of The Cat in the Hat.
You are free to say at any time that you don't believe what Jesus taught. But if you say that He is not history then the wieght of evidence is against you. And even the majority of enemies of Jesus Christ would not agree with you.
I don't think I am learning much from you Agerg. I don't see what dropping my experience of Christ and picking up your dispairing retreat into relativism would do for me or anyone else for that matter.
Originally posted by jaywillWhat makes you think that I have to disprove that ? you don't have to...but what I posted is (maybe slighty at a tangent) consistent with the original post and is a direct response to your post...you then state it is nonsense without really getting my underlying point, hell I could make up a million books that offer the truth...one that is gaining in readership is the Gospel of the FSM; should I find my answers in that?
What makes you think that I have to disprove that ?
I'm here to talk about Jesus Whom I know. I am not here to [b]disprove Dr. Seuss.
If you have something positive to say about Dr. Suess, go ahead and say it. My subject matter is Christ and the gospel and the history of it.
Seems you're the one not getting the point. Say what ever you wa up your dispairing retreat into relativism would do for me or anyone else for that matter.[/b]
You are free to say at any time that you don't believe what Jesus taught. But if you say that He is not history then the wieght of evidence is against you. And even the majority of enemies of Jesus Christ would not agree with you
Where do I say that a *human* called Jesus did not live Jaywill? (it is you that attaches to him the notion that he is the son of God, he physically walked on water etc...)
Originally posted by AgergSad.
[b]What makes you think that I have to disprove that ? you don't have to...but what I posted is (maybe slighty at a tangent) consistent with the original post and is a direct response to your post...you then state it is nonsense without really getting my underlying point, hell I could make up a million books that offer the truth...one that is gaining in re ...[text shortened]... at attaches to him the notion that he is the son of God, he physically walked on water etc...)[/b]
Originally posted by FreakyKBHthe ever rational Freaky joins in with it's boundless wisdom
Sad.
You're the fool that in our very first encounter that figured the best way of meeting my argument was to attack my usage of a certain word that is only considered slang yet having made the same bloody mistake earlier in the same thread yourself!
Originally posted by Agergthe ever rational...
the ever rational Freaky joins in with it's boundless wisdom
You're the fool that in our very first encounter that figured the best way of meeting my argument was to attack my usage of a certain word that is only considered slang yet having made the same bloody mistake earlier in the same thread yourself!
ever-rational