10 Jun 17
Originally posted by sonship[/b]The book of Revelation does not contain the word 'unsaved'.. And your question is nonsensical.
Rajk999,
So you are teaching concerning the unsaved -
[b] Physical life ---> non-existence ----> physical life by resurrection ----> non-existence again.
Is that your interpretation of Revelation 20 ?
Originally posted by sonshipAnd this has to do with the original question - how?
Let me ask you a couple of questions too.
A man, a world leader with extensive power, even supernatural power, will not allow anyone who does not have his mark, to buy or sell - is this evil to you ?
A man who sits in Jewish temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God. And if you do not acknowledge him as such you go starving, unclothed, sick, impri ...[text shortened]... Satan turns over all of his worldly authority.
You do count that as very evil, don't you ?
If anyone, supernatural or not, let people burn in hell for eternity - isn't that the most evil thing to do? I cannot think of anyone more evil to do this.
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Originally posted by FabianFnasI think sinners separated from God for eternity are where they chose and want to be - where they have NOTHING to do with God.
I furthermore that it is God's responsibility to express in words which cannot be misunderstood, that such a destiny will not be an enjoyable one.
If you had children who you wanted to understand that Sing Sing Prison is a place that they should avoid at all costs, you might describe it in terms of the worst possible circumstances of the place. Revelation 14 could serve that function - to describe the worst circumstances of that destiny. I would not be too dogmatic about this. But I only suspect that this is so.
G.H. Lang wrote the following in his book The Last Assize [my bolding and spacing]
concerning this passage:
" ... whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of eternal sin." (Mark 3:29)
"Therefore I say to you, Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the one to come." (Matt. 12:31,32)
" Scripture speaks of various seasons of Divine judgment. The Lord judges His people in this life, as I Cor. 11.31,32; i Pet. 4.17. At His return to the earth He will judge Israel and the nations then living" Joel 3.11-16; Matt. 25.31-46. At the end of the age to follow this, the Millennial era, there will be a final assize of the universe. During this age and that age to follow mercy is available, but if it be not sought and found within this time limit there is no hint that it will be so thereafter. Our Lord's words quoted imply this; for it were to little purpose to specify this age and the next as the time for forgiveness if actually it will be attainable in later ages. Surely His words are clear in their assertion that for the persons and sin in question there never will be forgiveness, now or hereafter. ...
Observe why there is no forgiveness of the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This blasphemy constitutes "eternal sin " not, be it well noted, a sin eternal in its consequences: that is involved, but it is not all that our Lord said. He states that the sin itself is eternal, the blasphemer is "guilty of eternal sin." This sin is as much a state as an act; the outward blasphemy indicates an inward state of heart which has become unchangeable in its opposition to God."
[ The Last Assize, G.H. Lang, Conley & Schoettle, pgs. 17,18 ]
The purpose of my including this comment is not to give an explanation of what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, which is controversial. My purpose is to demonstrate the Jesus Christ taught that there is a TERMINAL point to God's toleration and willingness to forgive.
It is also to demonstrate the a soul may be "frozen" in a state of perpetual sinning. And perpetual wrath upon that state seems to be the destiny. They go with their leader Satan and co-share his desired fate, to have nothing to do with God, forever.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
The book of Revelation does not contain the word 'unsaved'.. And your question is nonsensical.
The book of Revelation does not contain the word 'unsaved'.. And your question is nonsensical.
My question was not whether the word "unsaved" does or does not appear in the book of Revelation.
My question is do you teach that those not resurrected in the first resurrection are non-existent , but a thousand years latter become existent long enough to be judged, and then become non-existent again after this judgment ?
IE. Physical life ---> non-existence ----> physical life by resurrection ----> non-existence again.
Is this your interpretation of Revelation 20 or do you have another interpretation of the state of those NOT resurrected in the first resurrection ?
Originally posted by sonshipI know what you want me to say but Im using your question to demonstrate that you do not adhere to Bible teachings and Bible terminology.The book of Revelation does not contain the word 'unsaved'.. And your question is nonsensical.
My question was not whether the word "unsaved" does or does not appear in the book of Revelation.
My question is do you teach that those not resurrected in the first resurrection are[b] non-existent , but a thousand years latter become ...[text shortened]... ou have another interpretation of the state of those NOT resurrected in the first resurrection ?[/b]
The word 'unsaved' is NEVER USED IN THE WHOLE OF THE KJV. Therefore who is it that you are referring to when you say 'unsaved'? I dont understand what you mean as it is not in the Bible.
You seem to be saying that whoever is NOT SAVED, are automatically TORTURED FOR ETERNITY. Just like you assume and claim to know who is saved.... you dont know these things.
Originally posted by sonshipThis is a good example of you elevating the teachings of man above the teachings of Christ. GH Lang is an idiot for writing that nonsense, and you an even bigger idiot for believing him. There is no such thing in the bible as an eternal sin... In any event how does that translate into eternal torment. Sin leads to death. How do you arrive at the torment.
I think sinners separated from God for eternity are where they chose and want to be - where they have NOTHING to do with God.
I furthermore that it is God's responsibility to express in words which cannot be misunderstood, that such a destiny will not be an enjoyable one.
If you had children who you wanted to understand that Sing Sing Prison i ...[text shortened]... with their leader Satan and co-share his desired fate, to have nothing to do with God, forever.
10 Jun 17
Originally posted by sonshipThe point to it all is I believe we are going to spending eternity under God's grace due to
Thankyou. I agree.
As you know maybe several threads have opened up the subject of eternal punishment.
I do need to hear from Divegeester :
1.) Can he prove that the opposite of physical life is non-existence considering, for example, [b]First Samuel 28.
Maybe he's thinking about it. So let's what he says about this non-emotional aspect of ...[text shortened]... want to be un-reconciled to God.
For God is a Person for whom a greater Person cannot exist.[/b]
Jesus, or God's wrath due to our sins. Warnings are given no matter what it is God has
planned for us either way, no one here can say they were not warned.
Originally posted by KellyJayWhy does God have wrath?
The point to it all is I believe we are going to spending eternity under God's grace due to
Jesus, or God's wrath due to our sins. Warnings are given no matter what it is God has
planned for us either way, no one here can say they were not warned.
Please explain it to me as if i were a 5 year old.
Originally posted by KellyJayAre we discussing people HERE? Is that what you think this discussion is about? People HERE are warned? You are famous, notorious rather for misinterpreting, misreading, misconstruing, misunderstanding so many things in so many threads. Maybe its time you take a back seat, read the threads and resist the temptation to post.
The point to it all is I believe we are going to spending eternity under God's grace due to
Jesus, or God's wrath due to our sins. Warnings are given no matter what it is God has
planned for us either way, no one here can say they were not warned.
This discussion is about the billions people who existed from the dawn of mankind up to the point when Jesus judges all people prior to the second death... they are many many billions who have never heard of Jesus, or God through no fault of their own.
God has made provision for these people and this provision is clearly laid out in the Bible. Your Christianity which is a narrow, judgmental, clannish organisation if given its way, would have all these innocent billions of people tormented for all eternity. I dont think your little mind could envisage the enormity of these amount of people neither could it fathom the vastness of eternity.
You, because you choose to believe in this doctrine, I would say that you are as sick and evil as the worst elements of humanity who killed and tortured people... the Hitlers, Stalins, IdiAmins etc etc of this world. You and Christians like you are that type.
10 Jun 17
Originally posted by divegeesterEzekiel 3:17-18New King James Version (NKJV)
Who is primarily responsibile for all of the billions of people being supernaturally kept alive and burnt in hell for eternity while Jesus and the angels spectate. Not annihilated, not vapourised, burnt alive, tormented for all eternity.
So, is responsibility for this carnage attributed to your version of Jesus the Lamb, or is it the responsibility o ...[text shortened]... angels, and in the presence of the Lamb, and the smoke of their torment will go up forever.[/i]
17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me: 18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeUnlike you when God forgives it is complete without anything mixed into it that would have
Why does God have wrath?
Please explain it to me as if i were a 5 year old.
to do with trying shame the one that He is forgiving, or holding something else against
them. So when He shows mercy is it complete without condemnation.
So as is His mercy is completely without condemnation and wrath, His wrath will be
without mercy. When He shows His wrath, it will be on all who do evil, the devil and his
angels, and all of those who do evil, no one innocent.
Matthew 13 NIV
40“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Originally posted by KellyJayExcept Christians of course... they have that licence to sin arrangement
Unlike you when God forgives it is complete without anything mixed into it that would have
to do with trying shame the one that He is forgiving, or holding something else against
them. So when He shows mercy is it complete without condemnation.
So as is His mercy is completely without condemnation and wrath, His wrath will be
without mercy. When He sh ...[text shortened]... indness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Originally posted by karoly aczelThat is right, as He is also just. He will not allow evil to go unpunished, nor will He allow
Because he is a loving, all knowing god 🙄
an eternal kingdom to be polluted by evil and those that prefer evil. This temporary place
is revealing evil for what it is, when we sin we are acting out in our fleshly nature, and He
is giving us grace to avoid that fate, ignore it or not. You will stand before Him as I will and
everyone else, no matter how many here wish to condemn God, in the end He will either
show us mercy through Jesus, or condemn us.