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He says men are 'sons of God' (which is scriptural) and that is the same as saying the 'son of a horse is a horse.' (Not scriptural). Do you understand the significance of that, and that when he uses words like God-ized he means man is destined to be a God in his own right. (Lesser than the Godhead - A demi-god, man minged with the divine). This is 'not' the same as saying the Holy Spirit dwells inside a Christian. It is a million miles from that.
God has gone through a process in order that we could receive Him as life.
"the Word became flesh" (John 1:14) that is one step in the economincal procedure, the process.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) is another step in the economincal process of the Triune God readying Himself to be OUR life.
If we believe that Christ is God (which we do though you do not) and if we believe that Christ the Lord became a life imparting Spirit to be "one spirit" with us, then part of us is God in a mingled way, a united way, a way of blending.
Your reaction is similar to the Moslem who is appalled that we would speak of God having a Son. The Moslem would be appalled at the thought of God living IN people. But we are told exactly that that is the case.
"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God." (1 John 4:15)
Now I come up with a term - We believers have caused God to be "We-ized".
Becomming one spirit with the Lord has started us on the God-izing and Son-izing process. And God abiding in us has began God in the "We-izing" process.
And personally, though I have never heard "We-ized" before I think those who understand would be happy to hear it.
This thread is about the church being God's farm for groweing Christ in Christians. We become "Son-ized" if you will, and the Triune God becomes "We-ized". It is mutual.
"In that day you will know that I am in My Father and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20) - so very mutual!
10 Jan 22
@sonship said"Now I come up with a term - We believers have caused God to be "We-ized". "
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
[quote] He says men are 'sons of God' (which is scriptural) and that is the same as saying the 'son of a horse is a horse.' (Not scriptural). Do you understand the significance of that, and that when he uses words like God-ized he means man is destined to be a God in his own right. (Lesser than the Godhead - A demi-god, man minged with the divine). This i ...[text shortened]... ill know that I am in My Father and you in Me, and I in you." (John 14:20) [/b] - so very mutual!
You are virtually blaspheming.
How can you possibly think you can characterize the Word of God as inferring that we can "cause" God anything?
God is the cause of anything "we" become. We don't "cause" jack squat.
You've gone too far.
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10 Jan 22
@josephw saidI gotta agree with josephw here, sonship.
"Now I come up with a term - We believers have caused God to be "We-ized". "
You are virtually blaspheming.
How can you possibly think you can characterize the Word of God as inferring that we can "cause" God anything?
God is the cause of anything "we" become. We don't "cause" jack squat.
You've gone too far.
God is way above us in every way.
And for all the “mingling” of God with man, I think you’d agree that each Person of the Trinity is separate, and, while Jesus Christ the Son has “mingled” with man by (temporarily) taking on human flesh, and the Holy Spirit has “mingled” with man by indwelling believers, God the Father has not mingled with man in any way.
Am I wrong?
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10 Jan 22
@sonship saidMy mate Bob is an extremely kind man. I strive to be like Bob, share his spirit of kindness. Bob has even brought kindness directly into my life so that I might by guided by his kindness, share in the kindness that emanates from him, allow his kindness to permeate my very being and make me a better person.
We are told to "excercise yourself unto godliness" (First Timothy 4:7) That means man must do something to cooperate with this "_____izing" such that godliness becomes his characteristic.
And there are many, many other verses speaking of this godliness as something believers should have, possess, move towards, or otherwise let God endow them with.
At no point though do I become Bob.
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10 Jan 22
@josephw said
"Now I come up with a term - We believers have caused God to be "We-ized". "
You are virtually blaspheming.
How can you possibly think you can characterize the Word of God as inferring that we can "cause" God anything?
God is the cause of anything "we" become. We don't "cause" jack squat.
You've gone too far.
Good to see Christians defending their own faith. It really isn't something that should be led by an atheist.
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You are virtually blaspheming.
How can you possibly think you can characterize the Word of God as inferring that we can "cause" God anything?
God is the cause of anything "we" become. We don't "cause" jack squat.
You've gone too far.
This should be examined, certainly.
When the Lord Jesus promised the disciples that if they asked Him anything, (anything within His WILL) did He say He would fulfill it?
"And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give to you. Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be made full." (John 16:23,24)
If we fulfill the conditions by which we can truly say we ask in His name, and it is according to what He desires to do - is not our asking Him CAUSING Him to do something ?
Please remember, our asking is in harmony with the will of God and in Him, in His name, with the right heart, the right oneness and harmony with one another and with Him. Can you say this petitioning is not in any way CAUSING God to do something?
In your contemplation of a reply accompany John 16;23,24 with its echo in
1 John 5:14,15.
"And this is the boldness which we have toward Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him."
He is able to do "superabundantly above" all what we ask or even THINK. Right?
"But to Him who is able to do superabundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power which operates in us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus unto all the generations forever and ever. Amen." (Eph. 3:20,21)
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God is way above us in every way.
And for all the “mingling” of God with man, I think you’d agree that each Person of the Trinity is separate, and, while Jesus Christ the Son has “mingled” with man by (temporarily) taking on human flesh, and the Holy Spirit has “mingled” with man by indwelling believers, God the Father has not mingled with man in any way.
I will get back to you in more depth in awhilte.
Surely the God and Father is "over all". While He is "in all" and "through all" He is nonetheless "over all" - eternally the transcendent Source above, the Most High.
"One God and Father of all, who is OVER ALL and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:6)
10 Jan 22
@josephw saidSonship has just now “gone too far”?
"Now I come up with a term - We believers have caused God to be "We-ized". "
You are virtually blaspheming.
How can you possibly think you can characterize the Word of God as inferring that we can "cause" God anything?
God is the cause of anything "we" become. We don't "cause" jack squat.
You've gone too far.
Years and years of propagating errors and nonsense such as:
- God-men
- 3 gods in 1 entity
- 4 in 1
- other worlds observing eternal torture as a deterrent
- the veneration of Witness Lee
- eternal suffering helping him forgive those who mistreat him
- having to believe in the Recovery Church version of the trinity as a prerequisite to being saved
- Jesus farms
- All other church denominations preaching Satan
- and so on and so forth…
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Joseph,
Good morning - - - God morning!
You said I blasphemed to suggest man could cause God to do anything.
Don't say this. Look at the Bible.
Have you ever read this? - "And there was never a day like that day, before it or after it, when Jehovah listened to tyhe voice of a man; for Jehovah fought for Israel."
Joshua 10:11 - 14 is a particularly spectacular instance of the God and Creator of the universe heeding the voice of man who is 100% in cooperation with the divine will.
" And while they fled from before Israel, when they were on the descent of Beth-horon, Jehovah sent large stones upon them from heaven as fare as Azekah, and they died. There were more who died becaise of the hailstones than the children of Israel slew with the sword. " (Jos. 10:11)
Cont. below
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This is preliminary to show how willing the God was to cause even nature to assist is people.
Then we have this:
Then Joshua spoke to Jehovah on the day when Jehovah delivered up the Amorites before the children of ISrael; and he said in the sight of Israel,
Sun, be still over Gibeon;
And you Moon, over the valley of Aijalon!
And the sun was still,
And the moon stayed,
Until the nation afenged themselves of their enemies,
Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stayed in the middle of the heavens, and it did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
And there was never a day like that day, before it or after it, when Jehovah listened to the voice of a man; for Jehovah fought for Isreal" (Jos. 10:12-14)
These things were written for our admonition in the new covenant age.
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10 Jan 22
@sonship saidYou pompously stated:
This is preliminary to show how willing the God was to cause even nature to assist is people.
Then we have this:
Then Joshua spoke to Jehovah on the day when Jehovah delivered up the Amorites before the children of ISrael; and he said in the sight of Israel,
Sun, be still over Gibeon;
And you Moon, over the valley of Aijalon!
And the sun was still ...[text shortened]... " (Jos. 10:12-14)
These things were written for our admonition in the new covenant age.
"Now I come up with a term - We believers have caused God to be "We-ized". "
To justify this 'causing' of God to do something, you reference:
'There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel!'
The problem is sonship you have shot yourself in the foot and highlighted your own arrogant blasphemy. The passage from Joshua clearly states it was a one-off, 'never been a day like it before or since.'
Yet here you are boldly claiming to have caused God to be We-ized. How much deeper are you going to dig the hole you are standing in?
Rather than creating even more words like We-ized, you'd be better off discarding the ones you have already assimilated.
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I gotta agree with josephw here, sonship.
God is way above us in every way.
And for all the “mingling” of God with man, I think you’d agree that each Person of the Trinity is separate, and, while Jesus Christ the Son has “mingled” with man by (temporarily) taking on human flesh, and the Holy Spirit has “mingled” with man by indwelling believers, God the Father has not mingled with man in any way.
Am I wrong?
God morning to you also brother PB1022,
Perhaps you may agree that two ominous looking red thumbs down on my preliminary reply is not adaquate rebuttal to it..
I would not say the three of the Trinity are "separate" but I would say the three are distinct. Now this really defies adaquate human language to plumb this mystery.
However, sinsce they are living within each other and "co-inhering" (as some say) I see distinction but not separation.
Notice that when speaking experientially Paul interchanges these titles in a quite seamless way, moving from one title to the other concerning ONE indwelling Triune God.
"But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dfead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Rom. 8:9-11)
Who indwells the Christians ?
"the Spirit of God" who incidently is
"the Spirit of Christ" who by the way is
"Christ" who mysteriously is ALSO
"the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead" who happens to be
"He who raised Christ from the dead" .
Did Jesus say the Father would come to live within the believers? Yes.
" . . . My Father will love him, and We [Father and Son] will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
Therefore He is the God and Father who is . . . in all - meaning in all the members of the Body of Christ.
"One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:6)
Do you believe that the God and Father is "in all" the members of the Body of Christ? I certainly do.
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10 Jan 22
@sonship saidHe said clearly:
@PB1022
[quote] I gotta agree with josephw here, sonship.
God is way above us in every way.
And for all the “mingling” of God with man, I think you’d agree that each Person of the Trinity is separate, and, while Jesus Christ the Son has “mingled” with man by (temporarily) taking on human flesh, and the Holy Spirit has “mingled” with man by indwelling believers, God the ...[text shortened]... elieve that the God and Father is "in all" the members of the Body of Christ? I certainly do.
"...while Jesus Christ the Son has “mingled” with man by (temporarily) taking on human flesh, and the Holy Spirit has “mingled” with man by indwelling believers, God the Father has not mingled with man in any way."
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Divegeester unfairly exaggerates some of my words and I have spoken plenty to Ghost already.
I would like very much to see what PB1022 and Joseph would say to my posts to the for now.
Ghost has been rallying strongly to get other believers in the Lord Jesus to reject my speakings. So if they are indeed believers in the Lord Jesus, let me see what else they would say.
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10 Jan 22
@sonship saidI can understand why you disregard the challenges from an atheist, but when so many Christians challenge your deification cult, doesn't that cause you to pause and reconsider the path you have been led down.
Divegeester unfairly exaggerates some of my words and I have spoken plenty to Ghost already.
I would like very much to see what PB1022 and Joseph would say to my posts to the for now.
Ghost has been rallying strongly to get other believers in the Lord Jesus to reject my speakings. So if they are indeed believers in the Lord Jesus, let me see what else they would say.