Originally posted by RatX
Good luck translating... A lot is in the eye of the beholder and others can only convince you that much.

The one who has the power (god) must will that someone perishes, or else it does not happen. Seems pretty clear to me.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
The one who has the power (god) must will that someone perishes, or else it does not happen. Seems pretty clear to me.

In case of any confusion, when I said "He wills that none should perish" - "will" is meant as "desire", not as the will in "free will" which is the ability to freely decide on something.

In my view, the one who has the power is the judge (which is states several times in scripture) and sure, he wills that someone perishes or not, once he has accounted for his life (which is not a series of events, but choices).

If the judge be real, do fear Him, and be careful about your choices and make sure he "wills" you into heaven, not heck 😉

Originally posted by RatX
In case of any confusion, when I said "He wills that none should perish" - "will" is meant as "desire", not as the will in "free will" which is the ability to freely decide on something.

In my view, the one who has the power is the judge (which is states several times in scripture) and sure, he wills that someone perishes or not, once he has accounte ...[text shortened]... r Him, and be careful about your choices and make sure he "wills" you into heaven, not heck 😉

Oddly....the "will" in "free will" is the same as the "will" which refers (roughly) to "desire"... The phrase "free will" refers to being able to follow your own will, or "do what you want to."

Originally posted by echecero
Oddly....the "will" in "free will" is the same as the "will" which refers (roughly) to "desire"... The phrase "free will" refers to being able to follow your own will, or "do what you want to."

That may be, but God's "will" does not always imply it will come to pass.
For example God's will is in the bible with many different usages. Theleema, Thelo and many others are used for "will". Reading in english we only see will. In this verse...
1 Tim 2:4
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
(NKJ)
Now we know that not all are saved, and certainly don't come to a knowledge of the truth. Here it is ..

2309 thelo (thel'-o);

or ethelo (eth-el'-o); in certain tenses theleo (thel-eh'-o); and etheleo (eth-el-eh'-o); which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of 138; to determine (as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas 1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations), i.e. choose or prefer (literally or figuratively); by implication, to wish, i.e. be inclined to (sometimes adverbially, gladly); impersonally for the future tense, to be about to; by Hebraism, to delight in:

KJV-- desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, -ling [-ly]).

In other words a more proper translation is God wishes that all men be saved...but not all will.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
That may be, but God's "will" does not always imply it will come to pass. In this verse...
1 Tim 2:4 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
(NKJ)
Now we know that not all are saved, and certainly don't come to a knowledge of the truth.
.

I would argue that eventually all do come to God, hence reincarnation. Perhaps there is more to God's will than our ability to interpret scripture.