18 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Thequ1ckThere is no evidence*, so his remark can only come from his prejudice.
So are you saying that he is not entitled to put forward this theory
even though there is evidence for it? Or are you saying that he was making
a conclusion?
*Not scientifically accepted, at least.
18 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by PalynkaYou're confusing me now. So at what stage does evidence become credible?
There is no evidence*, so his remark can only come from his prejudice.
*Not scientifically accepted, at least.
How is dark matter any more of a theory than Watson's theory of intelligence
distribution across geographically isolated groups?
Are you saying that Watson was persecuted for having a hypothesis?
IQ testing is used as credible evidence in the west. It can alter the school
that a person goes to. There are societies set up for people with high IQ's.
'The name comes from mensa, the Latin word for "table", and indicates that it is a round-table society of equals.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International
Does this have more racial significance than Watson's quotes? After all Watson
never judged people with lower IQ's as less than equals.
18 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by SeitseThat's a whole new rabit hole. Open a thread if you have the time and stamina.
Does anybody around here know the history of the IQ test?
Personally I'm going to assume that the test is flawed for this thread.
But I would be interested to hear any particular views on why Africa is at the ass
end of the bell curve.
18 Feb 09
Originally posted by Thequ1ckI have a view, but I feel certain that you really don't want to hear it. 😉
That's a whole new rabit hole. Open a thread if you have the time and stamina.
Personally I'm going to assume that the test is flawed for this thread.
But I would be interested to hear any particular views on why Africa is at the ass
end of the bell curve.
18 Feb 09
3 edits
Originally posted by PinkFloydJust out of curiosity PF. Where do you keep your smileys?
I have a view, but I feel certain that you really don't want to hear it. 😉
In an empty document? Do you remember them? Or
do you take them from other threads?
I ask you this because already I begin to wonder what kind
of a man or woman you are. Are you the sort of person that
believes destiny is your own making? The type that believes
destiny is calling you? Or the type that doesn't really think
about it at all?
I have you for the latter PF, I hope you don't mind my indiscretion.
20 Feb 09
2 edits
Originally posted by PinkFloydSuppose the syntax for a smiley changed. Who would know? Only the people that
I use the little "Insert smiley" prompt just below the box that says "Post", and I just pick one.
As for the rest of your post, how my use of emoticons is related to my feelings about my destiny is something I've never considered.🙄 But I'm up for any challenge.
wrote down or memorised it. I know what you're thinking, who cares?
And you're right of course it's inconsquential. Some people like to know what is
going on and be in charge of their own destiny and some/most people prefer to
lay back and enjoy the ride.
Anyway another attempt to get back on topic. The reason I chose those 3 alternative
methods of saving smiley were to broadly approach S Pinkers 3 hypothesised
theories on human nature. The blank slate, the noble savage and the ghost in the
machine.
With regard to the argument that human intelligence has not adapted significantly
to environment since leaving Africa and that differences in IQ testing are social
issues. I think it is fair to say that we are dealing with the blank slate ideology.
20 Feb 09
In “An Essay concerning Human Understanding” (1690), John Locke argued that all reason and knowledge is derived from sense-experience. Everyone would be born with a blank mind, except for a few basic instincts. Locke’s empiricism would have significant social implications. The doctrine would undermine hereditary royalty and aristocracy as well as the institution of slavery, as both groups could neither be considered innately inferior nor superior; rather, all are equal. From this point, Pinker showed by results from cognitive neuroscience that innate mechanisms exist in the genetically determined brain and that therefore the Blank Slate is incorrect.
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by Thequ1ckIt depends on how your surveys were conducted, but I would go for malnutrition, and 'culture'.
But I would be interested to hear any particular views on why Africa is at the ass
end of the bell curve.
By 'culture' I refer to the education levels of the parents and how that trickles down to the children. The few adopted children I have known have appeared to me to have been way more intelligent than their non-adopted siblings and I attribute the difference to environment.
I think you would find it quite difficult to do any IQ surveys comparing African and another continent that successfully rule out the effects of environment.
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadHow difficult is it then to find a group that have undergone devlopment
It depends on how your surveys were conducted, but I would go for malnutrition, and 'culture'.
By 'culture' I refer to the education levels of the parents and how that trickles down to the children. The few adopted children I have known have appeared to me to have been way more intelligent than their non-adopted siblings and I attribute the difference to ...[text shortened]... mparing African and another continent that successfully rule out the effects of environment.
outside of these conditions for a comparism?
on a side note I found this on wiki -
Studies have shown that Chess requires auditory-verbal-sequential skills, not visuospatial skills.[19] A German study found that Garry Kasparov has an IQ of 135 and an extremely good memory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_intelligence
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by Thequ1ckI heard Kaspy has an IQ more like Fischer, 180. He was very advanced at a very early age, and had the definite advantage of being sane. I don't know the truth of course, but the saying goes, after about and IQ of 120, there is little correlation in chess and the upper ranges of IQ. I would like to try a test: The person with the highest modern recorded child IQ was Marylin Vos Savant, who clocked in at about 228. Of course as an adult, you can't keep getting those #'s but I would like to see her learn to play chess and see her spend as much time as say, the Polgar sisters, and see what level she would reach. I bet it would be at least IM but world champ? Doubtful.
How difficult is it then to find a group that have undergone devlopment
outside of these conditions for a comparism?
on a side note I found this on wiki -
Studies have shown that Chess requires auditory-verbal-sequential skills, not visuospatial skills.[19] A German study found that Garry Kasparov has an IQ of 135 and an extremely good memory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_intelligence
BTW, when Calculus was finally really invented and not toyed with as in Arabia a thousand years before, close but no cigar🙂, it must have been its time because it came independently in two places almost at the same time, Newton and Leibnitz. I gather they didn't like each other too much🙂 Newton took it a lot further than Libby of course but still, they both came up with it at the same time, so my supposition is, when the background work has been done, it is its time to be invented and just happened twice in the case of Calculus. If they hadn't, someone else would have within ten or twenty years would be my guess.
Remember the Babylon batteries? They found fossil remains of what would seem to be big jars with a center electrode, the remains of electrolyte and a metal outer shell inside those big water jugs they used in ancient times. But they apparently only gold plated statues with it, which then supposes they also knew about electrochemistry at some rough level but holding it secret just killed it and they missed out on the opportunity to put men on the moon 4000 years ago!
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by sonhouseInteresting. The same analogy could be used to describe different types of intelligence.
I heard Kaspy has an IQ more like Fischer, 180. He was very advanced at a very early age, and had the definite advantage of being sane. I don't know the truth of course, but the saying goes, after about and IQ of 120, there is little correlation in chess and the upper ranges of IQ. I would like to try a test: The person with the highest modern recorded chil ...[text shortened]... ust killed it and they missed out on the opportunity to put men on the moon 4000 years ago!
Is a computer that memorises moves more intelligent than one that has to figure
them out?
I would argue that in times of scarcity a higher 'adaptational' intelligence may be
required.
20 Feb 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Thequ1ckVery difficult. As I mentioned one possibility is adopted children, but even then it can be difficult to rule out environment. You can't simply go to the US and compare the IQ of the different races because the different races are known to live in different economic circumstances, and as I said, there is a significant amount of learning that is passed down from parents to children.
How difficult is it then to find a group that have undergone devlopment
outside of these conditions for a comparism?
Maybe an orphanage would be the best bet.
But as I mentioned earlier, even if you did prove a difference between races, I don't think it would explain why Europe beat the rest of the world to the punch. I think that has more to do with a whole range of factors and race is probably the very least of them.
The beginnings of civilization and some considerable progression managed to happen in many parts of the world regardless of race, I don't really see any reason to believe that things like industrialization would not have taken off somewhere else if Europe had for some reason been devastated by disease or war.
Also many of Europe's apparent successes are actually a product of biased history. When I was young I thought England was far more successful and powerful than it really was simply because I speak English. As I have grown older I have realized that the rest of Europe and even worse the far east is seriously ignored by the English speaking media and we are more or less in the dark about their history and current developments.
Why is nobody in this thread asking why Europe and the US have got left behind in favor of Japan and China? Can we attribute that to race too?
20 Feb 09
Originally posted by Thequ1ckIf someone came up with only three templates for human beings and their ability to learn, grow , and reason (blank slate, noble savage, and ghost in machine), I can only applaud him for managing to publish such drivel and have other people laud him as some kind of genius. There are sooooo many other things that go into what makes up intelligence, to hammer it down to three broad categories is ludicrous.
Suppose the syntax for a smiley changed. Who would know? Only the people that
wrote down or memorised it. I know what you're thinking, who cares?
And you're right of course it's inconsquential. Some people like to know what is
going on and be in charge of their own destiny and some/most people prefer to
lay back and enjoy the ride.
Anyway another at ...[text shortened]... social
issues. I think it is fair to say that we are dealing with the blank slate ideology.