To Mathematicians

To Mathematicians

Posers and Puzzles

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.

s
A.L.S.S.

Joined
16 Aug 04
Moves
25112
20 Jul 06

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
This relationship is normally stated as e^i*pi = -1.

You can find a good basic explanation here:
http://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/questionCorner/epii.html
Does the e^(ix) = cosx + isinx observation get you there? x=pi isn't the only point on the line where cosx=-1 and sinx=0. What about where x=3pi? cos(3pi) + isin(3pi) also =-1. so does e^(ipi) = e^(3ipi)?

F

Unknown Territories

Joined
05 Dec 05
Moves
20408
20 Jul 06

Originally posted by deriver69
One answer is because it works, but if you think of factorials as being the number of ways of arranging that many objects, there is only one way of arranging zero objects.
because it works
Ahh, the obverse side of the coin which reads "We Haven't the Foggiest." Sounds conclusive enough to fool 'em everytime!

u
The So Fist

Voice of Reason

Joined
28 Mar 06
Moves
9908
20 Jul 06
1 edit

Originally posted by deriver69
One answer is because it works, but if you think of factorials as being the number of ways of arranging that many objects, there is only one way of arranging zero objects.
Um, there are no ways to arrange zero objects. You are into semantics if you state that because there is no way to arrange zero objects then that "no way" can be re-written as "one way"

The only truth is to state there are zero ways to arrange zero objects.

0!=1 should be re-visited.

B
Non-Subscriber

RHP IQ

Joined
17 Mar 05
Moves
1345
20 Jul 06

Originally posted by uzless
The only truth is to state there are zero ways to arrange zero objects.
Zero ways is the only one possibility.

F

Unknown Territories

Joined
05 Dec 05
Moves
20408
20 Jul 06

Originally posted by Bowmann
Zero ways is the only one possibility.
Is it possible that zero weighs nothing?

B
Non-Subscriber

RHP IQ

Joined
17 Mar 05
Moves
1345
20 Jul 06

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Is it possible that zero weighs nothing?
That depends on how much zero you have.

F

Unknown Territories

Joined
05 Dec 05
Moves
20408
20 Jul 06

Originally posted by Bowmann
That depends on how much zero you have.
Howzabout a whole lot of zero's? Surely they cannot amount to nothing.

X
Cancerous Bus Crash

p^2.sin(phi)

Joined
06 Sep 04
Moves
25076
23 Jul 06

The factorial is mearly a mathmatical construct. 0! is defined just as the definition of a prime number is made to ensure that 1 is not one.

B
Non-Subscriber

RHP IQ

Joined
17 Mar 05
Moves
1345
24 Jul 06

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Howzabout a whole lot of zero's? Surely they cannot amount to nothing.
Since Infinity - 1 cannot be a finite number (no finite number plus 1 can equal infinity), then:

Infinity - 1 = Infinity

And one could subtract infinity from both sides, then multiply by -1, to conclude that 1 = 0. Now, with a lot more zeros you can begin to see how they will amount to quite a lot.

P
Upward Spiral

Halfway

Joined
02 Aug 04
Moves
8702
24 Jul 06

Originally posted by XanthosNZ
The factorial is mearly a mathmatical construct. 0! is defined just as the definition of a prime number is made to ensure that 1 is not one.
0! is part of a larger axiom that states that empty products are equal to one, just as empty sums are equal to zero.

F

Joined
11 Nov 05
Moves
43938
24 Jul 06

Originally posted by Palynka
0! is part of a larger axiom that states that empty products are equal to one, just as empty sums are equal to zero.
Oh, thanks Palynka!

Why 0! equals 1 has bothered me for years... No one has been able to give a good explanation and you made me understand it right away.
Well done!

Keeps

Shanghai

Joined
16 Feb 06
Moves
131172
24 Jul 06

Originally posted by uzless
Um, there are no ways to arrange zero objects. You are into semantics if you state that because there is no way to arrange zero objects then that "no way" can be re-written as "one way"

The only truth is to state there are zero ways to arrange zero objects.

0!=1 should be re-visited.
The only way of arranging zero giraffes on my kitchen table is the way I have zero giraffes on my kitchen table at the moment. There is no other way of arranging zero giraffes on the table.

On another point mentioned earlier, 1 not being a prime number is consistent with the definition of prime numbers being numbers with only 2 factors (1 has one factor).

R

Joined
30 Oct 05
Moves
3072
24 Jul 06
1 edit

Search "empty product" on Wikipedia for a nice explanation. By the way, in response to Bowmann, infinity - infinity is an indeterminate form, therefore the operation can't be performed.

B
Non-Subscriber

RHP IQ

Joined
17 Mar 05
Moves
1345
24 Jul 06
1 edit

Originally posted by deriver69
The only way of arranging zero giraffes on my kitchen table is the way I have zero giraffes on my kitchen table at the moment. There is no other way of arranging zero giraffes on the table.

On another point mentioned earlier, 1 not being a prime number is consistent with the definition of prime numbers being numbers with only 2 factors (1 has one factor).
Well said.

However, 1 could have an infinite number of factors: each 1.

B
Non-Subscriber

RHP IQ

Joined
17 Mar 05
Moves
1345
24 Jul 06

Originally posted by Ramiri15
By the way, in response to Bowmann, infinity - infinity is an indeterminate form, therefore the operation can't be performed.
Don't tell me what can and cannot be done ðŸ˜