18 Mar 07
Originally posted by cludi1.Qb5+! is obviously the right first move for white.
[fen]3rkb1r/pp3p1p/1q4p1/4nN2/4N3/8/PP2QPPP/R4RK1 w - -[/fen]
White to move
1...Qxb5 2.Nf6#
In the game (simultan!!) Aljechin-Kussman, New York 1924
things proceeded
1...Nd7 2.Te1! Bb4 3.Nf6+ Kf8 4.Nxd7+ Rxd7 5.Qe5 and black resigned
18 Mar 07
Originally posted by Mephisto2I once read that, too. I do, however, find it hard to believe it's true.
Interestly enough, the blackplayer, although one of the most pragmatic players ever, is said to have won as white exatcly the same game a few years before.
But it surely is an interesting and entertaining story...🙂
18 Mar 07
2 edits
Originally posted by cludi1. Bxf7+ Kxf7 (.. Kf8??, Ne6+) (.. Kh8, Ne6)
Only 9 moves played and yet it is time for white to do serious damage
to black, a VERY well known master of his time...
[fen]r1bqr1k1/pppnbppp/2np4/8/2BNP3/2N4P/PPP2PP1/R1BQR1K1 w - -[/fen]
White to move
2. Qf3+ Kg8 (.. Kg6, Qf5# )
3. Ne6 Ne5
4. Qe2
And the black Q is won.
19 Mar 07
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldI believe that's part of the answer except that 2. .. Kg8 isn't black's best move. Try and see what happens with 2. .. g6 instead.
Not really going deep here, but Bxf7+ Kxf7 Qh5+ Kg8 Qe6 wins the queen. As far as I can tell, Kg8 is the only king move, lots of pieces flying around and able to trap it if he gets too adventurous.
I'm trying to work out the kinks to my answer... it seems that if I get it wrong there's this big chase that costs white another piece but doesn't result in mate. I'm trying to find the mate or the material advantage.
19 Mar 07
2 edits
Originally posted by Jesse CusterAfter g6 white has Qe5+. Now white gets Ne6 with a check and also has easier access to the black squares now that the bishop has space.
I believe that's part of the answer except that 2. .. Kg8 isn't black's best move. Try and see what happens with 2. .. g6 instead.
I'm trying to work out the kinks to my answer... it seems that if I get it wrong there's this big chase that costs white another piece but doesn't result in mate. I'm trying to find the mate or the material advantage.
Edit: There's a long sequence that leads to mate after g6 if white plays Qxh7+ (the king gets forced to f8, as Ne6 is mate then). Black gets chased across the board but eventually gets the king.
19 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldIf:
After g6 white has Qe5+. Now white gets Ne6 with a check and also has easier access to the black squares now that the bishop has space.
Edit: There's a long sequence that leads to mate after g6 if white plays Qxh7+ (the king gets forced to f8, as Ne6 is mate then). Black gets chased across the board but eventually gets the king.
1. Bxf7+ Kxf7
2. Qh5+ g6
(Note that 3. Qe5 is not a check.)
3. Qd5+ Kany (other than .. Kf6, Bg5+ Kg7, Ne6+ Kany, Nxd8 )
4. Ne6+ Kany
5. Nxd8 winning the black Q
I also had a mate sequence, not sure if it's sound:
1. Bxf7+ Kxf7
2. Qh5+ g6
3. Qxh7+ Kf6
4. e5+ any
5. Nd5#
19 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Jesse CusterYeah, I mess up the squares a lot. I normally check to make sure I didn't make a mistake, but I guess that one got by. 😕
If:
1. Bxf7+ Kxf7
2. Qh5+ g6
(Note that 3. Qe5 is not a check.)
3. Qd5+ Kany (other than .. Kf6, Bg5+ Kg7, Ne6+ Kany, Nxd8 )
4. Ne6+ Kany
5. Nxd8 winning the black Q
I also had a mate sequence, not sure if it's sound:
1. Bxf7+ Kxf7
2. Qh5+ g6
3. Qxh7+ Kf6
4. e5+ any
5. Nd5#
Yeah, that first line was the one that I was talking about (as I'm sure you know).
Edit: Looks like you found a much shorter for the g6 mate then I saw. 😛
19 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldNot quite over yet:
Yeah, I mess up the squares a lot. I normally check to make sure I didn't make a mistake, but I guess that one got by. 😕
Yeah, that first line was the one that I was talking about (as I'm sure you know).
Edit: Looks like you found a much shorter for the g6 mate then I saw. 😛
1.Bxf7+ Kxf7
2.Qh5+ Kg8 and then what? (3.Qd5+ Kh8 4.Ne6 Nf6!)
edit:look for something much more forcing