Irrationality proof

Irrationality proof

Posers and Puzzles

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D

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31 Oct 07
2 edits

n is a positive integer. Here is a proof that sqrt(n) can't be a non-integer rational number:
Assume this is not the case. Then there is a minimal positive integer k such that k*sqrt(n) is an integer. But k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) is a smaller positive integer having the same property.

My question: can you write a SIMILAR proof, that will show that for all positive integers m and n, the mth root of n can't be a non-integer rational? It is easy to prove this theorem if we are allowed to use the fundamental theorem of arithmetic (=every integer has a unique prime factorization). But I want a proof similar to the proof I gave for square roots.

Thanx 🙂

T
Kupikupopo!

Out of my mind

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31 Oct 07
1 edit

Originally posted by David113
But k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) is a smaller positive integer having the same property.
What property do you mean?

D

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31 Oct 07

Originally posted by TheMaster37
What property do you mean?
The property of being an integer when multiplied by sqrt(n).

m

Joined
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31 Oct 07

Originally posted by David113
The property of being an integer when multiplied by sqrt(n).
But that's not a contradiction, as k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) is not a multiple of sqrt(n).

You haven't used any property of sqrt(n) in your proof.

D

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01 Nov 07
1 edit

Originally posted by mtthw
But that's not a contradiction, as k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) is not a multiple of sqrt(n).

You haven't used any property of sqrt(n) in your proof.
Why does k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) need to be a multiple of sqrt(n)?

Of course it is a contradiction:

k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) is a positive integer, since k*sqrt(n) and k*floor(sqrt(n)) are integers and k*floor(sqrt(n)) < k*sqrt(n).

It is smaller than k, since sqrt(n)-floor(sqrt(n)) < 1.

When multiplied by sqrt(n), the result is an integer:
[k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n))]sqrt(n)=kn-(k*sqrt(n))(floor(sqrt(n)))=difference between two integers=integer.

But k was supposed to be the SMALLEST positive integer that gives an integer when multiplied by sqrt(n).

Contradiction...

Now I ask if this proof can be generalized to roots other than the square root.

m

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01 Nov 07

Originally posted by David113
Of course it is a contradiction:

...(snip)...
Now that's more like it. I think the steps you assumed (and have now provided) are the key parts of the proof. Certainly makes it a lot clearer!

m

Joined
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01 Nov 07

Originally posted by David113
Why does k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) need to be a multiple of sqrt(n)?
Incidentally, this was my misunderstanding. I thought you meant that k*sqrt(n)-k*floor(sqrt(n)) had the same property as k*sqrt(n), not the same property as k. Sorry!