Posers and Puzzles
03 Oct 05
04 Oct 05
1 edit
Originally posted by XanthosNZHow the hell do they measure the speed of gravity!?!?!
Yes I'm changing my earlier opinion after looking through my physics notes.
The effect of gravity travels at the speed of light. Therefore we would have 8 minutes grace. Not that we'd know we'd had them until afterwards.
I would love to know.
Though I doubt I would ever understand that equation.
Its not like you can switch it on and say "OK go!"
Gravity is an inherent property of matter.
Hey! What came first the gravity or the matter, or the mass.
School me!!!
please define:
Gravity(waves?).
Matter.
Mass.
weight.
density.
any thing relevant
04 Oct 05
6 edits
just had a thought.
admittedly I know very little to nothing of physics.
If gravity is theorized to travel in waves, would it not make sense for them to be traveling in the oppisite direction on the suns light?
Perhaps gravity waves move toward mass, pulling other object with less mass along.
Also when objects mass gets so great, like a sun, the increased gravity waves moving toward the mass pull every thing including light with it!
So if the Suns gravity instantly stopped, its effect would be felt right away!
Because they do not travel light radio or light waves, they obviously gravity waves have an atraction or afinity for mass.
Radio and light do not.
What does this say about magnetic waves???
Not to mention the sun would explode like nothing we've ever seen,
if its gravity ceased to be.
Gravity is what gives mas inertia, right?(only guessing)
Why else would anything continue to move?
So if the Earths gravity stoped too, the earth would stop spinning.
Instantly, because inertia may be an affect of gravity.
tell me Im wrong, please stop me!
I have homework to do!!!
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Raw760Don't try and think about it in a logical manner you'll confuse yourself.
just had a thought.
admittedly I know very little to nothing of physics.
If gravity is theorized to travel in waves, would it not make sense for them to be traveling in the oppisite direction on the suns light?
Perhaps gravity waves move toward mass, pulling other object with less mass along.
Also when objects mass gets so great, like a sun, the incr ...[text shortened]... rtia may be an affect of gravity.
tell me Im wrong, please stop me!
I have homework to do!!!
One early test of the speed of gravity was to test whether the pull of the Sun was parallel to it's light.
If gravity is instantaneous then the light will be from the point the Sun was at 8 minutes ago (20 arc seconds?) whereas the pull of gravity would be where the Sun is now. This isn't the case.
Apparently the latest experiments have something to do with Jupiter. I don't know the details.
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by Raw760Learn what Einstein said about it before trying to better his theories.
just had a thought.
admittedly I know very little to nothing of physics.
If gravity is theorized to travel in waves, would it not make sense for them to be traveling in the oppisite direction on the suns light?
Perhaps gravity waves move toward mass, pulling other object with less mass along.
Also when objects mass gets so great, like a sun, the incr ...[text shortened]... rtia may be an affect of gravity.
tell me Im wrong, please stop me!
I have homework to do!!!
04 Oct 05
2 edits
Originally posted by Raw760Put simply, gravity is not a "force". It is the effect caused by the curvature of space by any mass, or object. The more massive the body, the greater the curvature of space and the effect of gravity felt. Our Sun bends, or warps, the space around it.
So if the Suns gravity instantly stopped, its effect would be felt right away!
The Earth orbits the Sun because it follows this curvature of the space caused by the Sun's presence. If the Sun were to spontaneously vanish, the gravitational disturbance that results will form a wave which travels across space (think of a stone thrown into a pond). We would continue to orbit the "missing Sun" until this wave catches up with the Earth...
04 Oct 05
Originally posted by BowmannOk. That rings a bell. like a ping pong ball flowing down a drain.
Put simply, gravity is not a "force". It is the effect caused by the curvature of space by any mass, or object. The more massive the body, the greater the curvature of space and the effect of gravity felt. Our Sun bends, or warps, the space around it.
The Earth orbits the Sun because it follows this curvature of the space caused by the Sun's presence. ...[text shortened]... nd). We would continue to orbit the "missing Sun" until this wave catches up with the Earth...
makes sense, sorta.
04 Oct 05
2 edits
Originally posted by CoconutThis coming from a person who says..
Learn what Einstein said about it before trying to better his theories.
"I believe the earth can't be more than 7000 years old."
And goes around quoting Einstein.
At least I try to think for myself Coconut.
Its OK, I don't dislike you for it.
Theories on gravity are lacking much scientific evidence, and this topic is hypothetical anyhow.
05 Oct 05
3 edits
Originally posted by BowmannIsn't that analogous to the idea of gravity being an effect caused by the curvature of space by any mass???
😕
And so if our solar system got a ginormus hair clog, the earth would keep going around until water backed up and the curvature was gone!
Wow, I'm good at theses analogies, huh?
05 Oct 05
5 edits
Originally posted by BowmannHey Bow, I think thats your longest single post ever.
Put simply, gravity is not a "force". It is the effect caused by the curvature of space by any mass, or object. The more massive the body, the greater the curvature of space and the effect of gravity felt. Our Sun bends, or warps, the space around it.
The Earth orbits the Sun because it follows this curvature of the space caused by the Sun's presence. ...[text shortened]... nd). We would continue to orbit the "missing Sun" until this wave catches up with the Earth...
Continuing on, when the wave hits the earth, the previous orbital
path would change to the earth just continuing on a straight path
which represents the last tangent to the former more or less circular orbit.
Would start getting cold REAL fast too. Astronomers would have
a ball for a few hours though, no sunlight to get in the way of the
scopes. Course when its 300 below, nobody would give a crap about
astronomy any more.....
05 Oct 05
Originally posted by Raw760If you could grab the sun and transport it ten light years away
just had a thought.
admittedly I know very little to nothing of physics.
If gravity is theorized to travel in waves, would it not make sense for them to be traveling in the oppisite direction on the suns light?
Perhaps gravity waves move toward mass, pulling other object with less mass along.
Also when objects mass gets so great, like a sun, the incr ...[text shortened]... rtia may be an affect of gravity.
tell me Im wrong, please stop me!
I have homework to do!!!
instantly the local space around the sun would have a kind of
rebound effect but the rules of the game makes all of these kind
of forces move only at the speed of light.
Think about a thin sheet of rubber, like a balloon only stretched
flat. You put a heavy metal ball in the center and it is a bit sticky.
Where it is it will make a dip where the ball trys to drag the sheet
down to earth (sheet is parallel to the ground).
Now remember its a bit sticky like post it notes sticky.
So you grab the ball and pull it off the sheet, the rubber will
first be pulled up past flat to a little pointyness while the ball is
trying to release from the sheet, further pulling up on the ball
makes it go past the point the stickyness can hold on and BOING,
the sheet rebounds. If you were photographing it microsecond by
microsecond, you would see the rubber look a bit like dropping
a rock on the surface of a calm pond, ripples going outward
Space itself would do that except you have to visualize it in at least
3 dimensions because space gets pulled inwards towards the center of
mass but in all directions so its a bunch more complex than a simple
rubber sheet analogy but the rubber sheet is a way of getting a bit
of a grip on the reality of the space warp thing. Hope this makes some
kind of sense, my elbows are getting tired from all this typing🙂
05 Oct 05
Originally posted by rheymansThere actually was one experiment that proported to generate
Because it is theoretical, Ark. Making the earth wobble is not an easy feat. So, you going to make us Google your sources, Xanthos, or are you going to make it easy?
magneto-gravitic waves by some interaction of the surface of a
superconductor and a radio or laser beam, with one test being you
end up with much less rf or laser energy then you had before because
it would generate this supposed magnetogravity wave. Just a teeny
bit on the speculative side I think. I forget who the scientists involved
were, think I read about it in New Scientists a couple years back.
There is also an experiment that seems to show some diminishing
of gravity under a spinning superconductor, a supposed 1%
diminishment on the bottom side of the wheel.
If it were true, it seems to me you could use it for a space drive,
since if it were in orbit around the earth or away from earth and
only under the influence of the sun, there might be enough of a
differance to move the assembly kind of like wings moving though
air developing lift. Total speculation on my part for a totally
speculative experiment which if it is actually two years old or more
by now, must have fizzled out or you would maybe have heard more,
unless(here come the conspiracy dudes, martha)unless they were
TOO successful and now are confined to area 51🙂
05 Oct 05
OK I've done some research ( alright alright I've Googled it 😉 )
Experiments done on observing binary pulsars put a LOWER LIMIT on the "speed of gravity" of (2 x 10 ^ 10) x c, i.e. a HUGE speed... and that is a lower limit.
There is a difference between the gemoetric effect of gravitation on a body in the space/time continuum, and gravity waves. One analogy is as follows:
Consider a buoy, attached to an anchor by a chain. The "gravitational force" is caused by the anchor and chain pulling on the buoy... this results in "gravitational waves" which emanate and ripple out from the buoy. The "gravitational force" is (virtually) instantaneous... the propagation speed of "gravitational waves", which is an EFFECT of gravity rather than the cause, may well travel at c or speeds close to c.
http://www.metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/speed_limit.asp